Evidence of meeting #42 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was preuss.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
So there was no punishment for CUPE appearing before this committee, not in any way, nothing that they would consider punishment.
Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Punishment for appearing before this committee? I have no idea how they perceived my actions. I cannot control that. But in that context? Never. It would be beyond reasonableness to even attempt something like that in this transparent world that we live in. I mean, it's beyond--
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Just so that I understand, Mr. Preuss, you referred to your letter to Ms. Sachs where you said that you were simply offering to provide service, that there was no punishment coming out of CUPE's June 20 appearance before this committee upon that committee's request.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
On a point of order. Mr. Chair, Mr. Julian is still referring to information that comes out of the letter that he has now agreed to have photocopied. To ask Mr. Preuss questions on that is inappropriate.
Once we have a copy of the letter, I'm not trying to frustrate his--
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Yes, you are, Mr. Fast, very clearly. I'm referring to his testimony.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
It's just a matter of time. Let's please get that document on the table, so Mr. Preuss has a copy, I've got a copy, and the rest of the members--
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Mr. Fast, if I may....
Since the clock is running, Mr. Julian, I would ask you again to stay pertinent to the motion that we are talking about. We're not talking about a letter written to a union representative. We are talking about a discussion that Mr. Preuss had with an administrator at the Canadian Federal Pilots Association, and I would ask you to stay on that topic, please.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Mr. Chair, I am. I'm referring to his testimony. Please follow attentively.
Mr. Preuss, you've now stated that there was no punishment following June 20. Your letter was simply an offer to provide service. That's your testimony.
If that is your testimony, I would like to ask you now if, prior to this conversation that you had with Ms. Marquis, were there--
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, Mr. Julian is trying to do indirectly what he couldn't do directly. Can we please wait until the letter has been tabled? Let's move on.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
I am referring to the testimony of Ms. Marquis. I'm not sure why the Conservatives are intervening, but referring to the affidavit that we have from Ms. Marquis, the question is this: did you check or have any conversations with the minister prior to or after this phone call? And subsequent to the CUPE presentation to our committee after June 20, did you have any conversations with the minister about CUPE's appearance before this committee?
Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
With the minister on those topics?
Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Not to my knowledge. I'll guarantee you I had no conversations with the minister vis-à-vis my administrative actions, which are part of the allegation here. With respect to CUPE, as for whether there were one-on-one conversations with Minister Cannon, no, not at all.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
This is the second time I've appeared at this committee, and it's an interesting committee. We were having a good old time going at Mr. Preuss here. I guess my question is to you, Mr. Chairman.
I'm just looking at what has appeared before us now, and we're questioning Mr. Preuss on an affidavit that was sworn March 15 as a result of a conversation that appeared to have taken place February 21. I don't know how many weeks before that was. I assume from the affidavit that this woman is relying on memory for something that happened three weeks ago. The letter is dated March 28 from Mr. Holbrook.
My question is, if we're going to have this good old time with Mr. Preuss, is Mr. Holbrook? If this is a big issue--and I understand the seriousness, as there are issues raised, there are suggestions of influencing witnesses--is the committee going to have Ms. Marquis and Mr. Holbrook come to talk about this issue? Or are we simply going to rely on this affidavit?
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
You see, it's hardly fair to go at this man unless.... I understand Ms. Marquis said in her affidavit that her father passed away, and I think we're all sympathetic about that, about the time, but that was some time ago. I assume, Mr. Chairman, if we're going to have a go at him, we're going to have a go at these other people.
It's just a point of order, Mr. Chairman, to you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Acting on the will of the committee, Mr. Tilson, that is something that I think we should consider, based on the fact that this is presented here today, a day that Mr. Preuss is here to speak to us.
Would you like to continue?
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Thank you, I would. That was a point of order, so my time could start now, Mr. Chairman. No? Well, I can try. I'm new here.
Mr. Preuss, in the affidavit, the contentious part seems to be this paragraph, and you have had an opportunity now to read it. Paragraph four says, “I will have an issue”. Does that ring a bell with you?
Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
The wording, no. As I said, I was anticipating problems with the process, the knowledge base of the employees involved. It is simply a matter of my exercising my due diligence on behalf of my employees. It is not normal for line employees to be in front of a committee like this.
If I'm uncomfortable, Mr. Tilson, can you imagine what a working level employee would feel coming before this committee?
At the time I was making the inquiry, I had no idea how they would be asked to be here.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
All I can do is ask questions, and we'll let everybody else make their observations.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Essentially what's coming out of this is that you threatened them. What's your response to that? You're shaking your head, no.