Transport Committee on April 30th, 2007

[George Kosinski]

It's possible, but there would have to be clear motivation to implement them, a motivation that I believe would have to be provided by an external source.

[Don Bell, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

—such as legislation or the Railway Safety Act: accountability.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks go also to the witnesses for coming forward today and providing evidence.

Mr. Chudnovsky, I read your report, the one you provided to us, and I have to say that I appreciated it. I noticed that several of your points, one in particular, dealt with dynamic brakes. Indeed, you've given as your testimony and said in this report as well that you think the lack of dynamic brakes, or their being taken off, was a real participant in some of the crashes.

Is that indeed the case?

[David Chudnovsky]

What I said is that it had been reported to me, as it has been, by many people who work on the railway that it was their view that this was a problem.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You know now that in fact Transport Canada issued a requirement for CN to use those on certain portions of steep terrain. So has that been remedied now, as far as you're aware?

[David Chudnovsky]

I know that there's been an order, and that's a good thing.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

The same thing goes with length of cars. Indeed, you've suggested that some of the problems that have taken place have been as a result of car lengths going upwards to the range of 144 cars in certain areas. Again, you feel that's part of the problem, or has been in the past?

[David Chudnovsky]

As I said before, that's what those who.... I don't pretend to be a railway expert, but as part of my job, I have been approached by many folks who said right away that this was a problem.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

And indeed, these were two of the 76 enforcement orders or actions taken by this government in the last year—these two measures that are going a long way towards safety, in your estimation.

[David Chudnovsky]

Well, the orders were made, that's for sure.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

And it's a good thing for the rail industry and the safety of people in B.C.?

[David Chudnovsky]

That the orders were made? Yes, absolutely.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Great.

Now, you went on to identify some other safety standards in rail yards. I note that you mentioned in your report that you've talked to hundreds of former employees. What do you believe are the largest problems with rail safety in the yards themselves?

[David Chudnovsky]

Frankly, I'm not able to tell you what the largest problems are. I can tell you that these that are itemized are problems that have been identified to us by more than just one person. We've heard from a number of people who work on the railway, and these are the ones we've heard about the most.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In my former life, I cross-examined people. I'm not here to cross-examine you; I'm here to find out what you think are the good things and the bad things that are consistently going on.

You mentioned that the good things were some of the orders that have been put in place by this government.

[David Chudnovsky]

Yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

What do you think of the review by the independent panel of the Railway Safety Act?

[David Chudnovsky]

I think that's a very good idea.

Let me mention, Chair, that I think one of the best things that have happened is this committee, and I said that right away. In response to some comments that have been made previously about my role here, let me say that I wrote, as the chair and the clerk will know, immediately when this committee voted unanimously to hold these hearings, to congratulate all of you. Notwithstanding our disagreements on small extraneous issues about all kinds of other things, I think it's terrific that this committee has taken it upon itself to hold these hearings. I applaud all of you, each of you, for having done that.

Yes, a review of the act is a good thing. Let's see what happens.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

So indeed, you're applauding the minister for having an independent review. Is that what you're suggesting?

[David Chudnovsky]

I'm saying that a review is a great idea—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Great.

[David Chudnovsky]

—and that the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

As it always is—in the taste.

You've also mentioned fatigue as being part of the issue in what's been identified by some of the employees, and I'd like to hear more about that. They've extended the hours from 10 to 12, and I understand that some other ramifications, as well as speeds while going past sleeping cars and things such as that, might play into the general fatigue problems.

[David Chudnovsky]

We've heard from a number of railway employees that the extension of hours is an issue and that people are away from home. We've also heard about the issue Mr. Cotie mentioned, on the condition of facilities for people to sleep in when away from home, and all of those issues. There was a bundle of them, if you will, described to us by employees as contributing to their concerns.