Transport Committee on May 7th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 49 of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

The orders of the day, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), are the main estimates for 2007-08: votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, and 75, under Transport, referred to the committee on Tuesday, February 27, 2007.

Joining us today is the Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, and joining him from the department are Mr. Louis Ranger, Guy McKenzie, David Cluff, and André Morency. Welcome.

I know the minister has an opening statement to make, and then we'll proceed to questions from the committee.

Please, Mr. Minister.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. It's a pleasure to appear before you once again. Today my officials and I are here to discuss the 2007-08 main estimates for the Transport, Infrastructure and Communities portfolio.

In November I described the responsibilities of this portfolio, which brings together Transport Canada and Infrastructure Canada, along with 16 crown corporations, and some of the challenges we face. In this portfolio we continue to tackle some of the most important issues facing Canada today, including the productivity of our economy, transportation safety and security, environmental sustainability, and the quality of life in our cities and communities as supported by public infrastructure.

I know that as members of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities you share many of these concerns. I would like to take this opportunity at the outset to thank you for your active involvement in the legislative agenda and a number of important policy questions that have an impact on the portfolio.

Since this government took office a year ago, we have made serious investments in all of these areas. I would like to take the opportunity to thank this committee for its support as we continue to move forward on behalf of Canadians.

For example, in the March 19 budget, we announced a new infrastructure plan worth $33 billion, which will provide long-term predictable funding for provinces, territories, and municipalities. This is the largest investment ever allocated to Canada's public infrastructure by a federal government. It is being provided over a seven-year timeframe that supports long-term planning by all levels of government. In making this commitment, we are providing over $17 billion in base funding to municipal governments for their infrastructure needs through the GST rebate, including $8 billion in new money to extend the gas tax transfers to 2014; $2.3 billion to provide equal per jurisdiction funding for provinces and territories of $25 million per year through 2014; $8.8 billion for the new Building Canada Fund to support large- and small-scale projects, such as waste water treatment plants, highways, public transit, and cultural and recreational facilities; $1.3 billion for a new national fund for public-private partnerships, plus $25 million for a new federal office for P3s; and substantial support for international trade, including $2.1 billion for a new fund for gateways and border crossings, and additional funding for the Asia-Pacific gateway.

In addition, budget 2007 commits $4 billion to complete our commitments under previous programs, bringing the total infrastructure funding to an unprecedented $37 billion over the next seven years.

In fact, just last week I mentioned in the House that this government is providing an additional $200 million to the Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund. This will help smaller Canadian communities meet their pressing infrastructure needs. Together with matching funds from provinces, territories and municipalities, this means some $600 million in infrastructure investments.

The plan reflects the results of extensive consultations we held last year with provinces, territories, the municipal sector and industry. As you are aware, officials from the portfolio visited every province and territory last summer. Subsequently, I released a report on what we heard during these consultations and it is posted on the Transport Canada website.

The government also recognizes the need for strategic investments to ensure our continued economic growth and prosperity. That's why Budget 2007 has announced new investments in gateways and border crossings and improved transportation integration.

Soon I will be going to cabinet to set the policy and program framework for the new funds, including the types of projects to be funded. Of course, Treasury Board must also approve how these programs will be managed. We will continue to discuss this with our partners as we proceed with program approvals, following which the Government of Canada will negotiate agreements with the provinces and territories for the funds and work with them to identify key infrastructure priorities.

This is the work we are currently doing, and as you can see, there is much to be done. That is why today I am asking you to recommend that Parliament approve the spending in main estimates tabled by the President of the Treasury Board on February 22.

The 2007-08 main estimates for the portfolio, which total $3.9 billion, include $859 million for Transport Canada and $2.1 billion for the Office of Infrastructure Canada. The remainder of the funding is allocated to various crown corporations.

Because we don't have time to go into all the numbers, I would instead like to briefly discuss the two major components of this portfolio—Transport Canada and Infrastructure Canada.

For Transport Canada, the 2007-08 main estimates--$859 million--are showing a net decrease of $558.2 million from the 2006-07 main estimates. The primary reason for this decrease is that in this fiscal year's presentation of the main estimates, the Transport-related crown corporations are now displayed separately from the transport portfolio. The result is a decrease to the department's spending estimates of $771.8 million. This decrease was offset by $213 million in funding for new initiatives, such as passenger rail, urban transit, the Asia-Pacific gateway and corridor initiative, and program measures in support of this government's clean air agenda. Finally, of $363.2 million in revenue, $298 million relates to airport lease revenue based on the amended ground lease formula and includes a forecast of repayment of deferred rent.

As for Infrastructure Canada, the total funding being sought is $2 billion, up from $1.8 billion in 2006-2007. The increase is due to the roll-out of previously announced programs and an increase to the amount provided under the Gas Tax program.

These main estimates include a provision for $29 million in funding for the operations of Infrastructure Canada to ensure effective management of infrastructure programs and gas tax funds, as well as research, policy development and other key programs.

As minister, I have a number of other portfolio responsibilities that do not require any appropriations from Parliament and are therefore not displayed in the estimates. They include the ship-source oil pollution fund, the Great Lakes Pilotage Authority, the Pacific Pilotage Authority, the Atlantic Pilotage Authority, the Laurentian Pilotage Authority, the Blue Water Bridge Authority, Ridley Terminals Incorporated, the Royal Canadian Mint and subsidiary, and Canada Lands Company.

Honourable members, my limited time today doesn't allow me to go into detail regarding all the items on the list. However, I believe the numbers I have been able to present today demonstrate the importance this government places on the priorities we have identified under the portfolio.

I would welcome the committee members' questions on our overall approach, Mr. Chair, or any of the specific measures contained in these estimates.

Thank you. Merci.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Minister and your colleagues from the department.

Of course, we would welcome the opportunity to ask you about all of those crown corporations for which you are responsible, and perhaps you will make yourself available as the reporting period for all of those crown corporations comes due before Parliament. We'd be delighted to take a look at all of the innovative components, if there are any that you ascribe to those organizations, and indeed to your own department, ones that don't begin with the introduction of, “This is a program begun in 2000”, “This is a program begun in 2002”, etc. But I know your heart must be in the right place, so we look forward to having that discussion with you.

I want to begin by referring to something, Mr. Chairman, that you handed out, and that is the statistical information on Transport Canada safety inspectors for civil aviation. This is something that came up when you were last here, Minister, and about which some of your officials, who I think are in the audience--yes, there we go, Monsieur Grégoire--promised to have information for us ASAP.

Well, two and a half weeks later, we're looking at allocated inspector positions going from 1992-93 to 2006-07. I don't see here the other figures that Monsieur Grégoire referred to us. There was a number like 1,400 and about 800-and-change remaining as allocated inspectors, even though he knew the numbers then.

I'm wondering, Mr. Minister, whether these figures for allocated inspector positions reflect the changes in the numbers of flights that have taken place in the country under the jurisdiction of Transport Canada, or indeed the numbers of flight miles, and whether these numbers are absolute numbers or whether they actually reflect a diminution relative to those expanding flights and flight miles.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Volpe.

Before I pass the response over to Mr. Grégoire, who of course will be here, I believe, either next week or the week after--I would say that my understanding is that he has a season's ticket to this committee--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Provided by the department, I guess.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

--and I'm sure he'll be very pleased to respond to those questions.

If I recall the discussion we had the other day, we were talking roughly in terms of whether there were still as many inspectors involved in security issues. And to that question, the response was yes.

We went back to the latter years of the 1990s to determine that there were some 1,400 inspectors. When Nav Canada came into being, a large number of them went over to Nav Canada, and then there were some who went over to airport services. But generally speaking, there has been stability in terms of the current number of inspectors.

So the question you're asking is, considering the fact that there has been an increase in the number of flights over that same period of time, has there been a variation in the number of inspectors.

Monsieur Grégoire.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for the introduction and--

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I'll let Mr. Grégoire answer that question.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

No.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

You don't want him to answer?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

No. He's going to come here again, because as you say, he's got a season's pass.

But I want to ask you some more--

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I want to be able to give you a complete response on that, Mr. Volpe. You understand that I'm here and that I want to do that for you, so I'll let Mr. Grégoire answer your specific question.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Minister, thank you very much for trying to consume some of the time.

Let me ask you--

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

No, I'm not consuming. You don't want him to answer the question?

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Let me ask you another question. I'll ask him when he comes. So let him answer when I ask him.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

No. I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. My prerogative is to be able to have my officials respond to the question, to be able to give the members of this committee a complete answer. And I am asking that my official be able to respond to that question.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

And ours is to receive it as we ask for it. So I want to ask questions on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I'll ask Mr. Grégoire to be very brief with the answers on the member's behalf, please.

[Marc Grégoire, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport]

I did some research with the staff there, and we cannot find the specific resources referring to the exact number of 1,400. We did look back into--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you. That was pretty precise.

Let me see if we can be even more precise now, Mr. Minister. The legislation that you oversee has about $500 million expended by CATSA for aviation security. Yet there was an additional couple of hundred million dollars--about $250 million--raised through airport security.

Airport security and the security of all passengers is the responsibility of your department. What happened to the rest of that money? It didn't go to CATSA.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Deputy minister.

[Louis Ranger, Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

As has been explained a number of times, there is a commitment by the government to make sure that every penny that's collected from the security charge goes back to security. It may not be exactly what happens on a year-by-year basis, but over a five-year basis that's the commitment of the government, and those numbers are audited by the Auditor General.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

But CATSA has been complaining over the course of the last several years, and more specifically this last year, where the amount, the difference, was huge, 50%.

[Louis Ranger]

I'm very much aware of that.