Transport Committee on May 7th, 2007

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister for his appearance here today.

I'm relatively new to the transport committee. I came over just before Christmas. One thing that's become really clear to me is that the responsibilities in Transport Canada are massive. They're complex. But the portfolio also deals with some very critical priorities, critical responsibilities, from coast to coast.

To start, this Conservative government is addressing green initiatives in the Great Lakes Basin. We can't overlook that this is important in my hometown of Amherstburg, for example. The last primary only treatment facility on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes is now being replaced with a new $30 million facility there because of COMRIF.

We're addressing long-term structural needs with respect to international trade, and I don't think this can be downplayed. This is very significant. Not only our window on Asia, with respect to the Pacific gateway initiative, but our window on the United States, which for me is one of the most critical.... It is our reality in the Windsor region. We have the busiest border crossing, not just in North America but in the world: $1 million per minute in two-way trade with the United States at the Ambassador Bridge, at that corridor only. So it's critical to Canada's economy, all the way to Quebec. We often joke that—you may well know, Minister—there are 17 stoplights between Montreal and Mexico and they're all on an 11-kilometre stretch from the end of the 401 to the border along here on Church Road in Windsor. The infrastructure is over 75 years old there.

Budget 2007 made a commitment. It did a few things. One, it outlined the federal government's responsibilities with respect to funding the projects there, the new crossing, and it further announced $400 million as a downpayment.

First, to either you or your officials—whoever is fine—can you verify that that is included in the estimates, that $400 million downpayment with respect to the Windsor–Detroit crossing?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

That amount of money is in Budget 2007. We'll probably see it in supplementary estimates in the fall.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Which is what I expected.

Can you or your officials also verify...? There's been some confusion that this represents the total amount of the 50% eligible cost on the access road. Some of your officials in the region have said it's only a downpayment, or an initial amount, and that there could be more once the costs of DRIC have been finalized. Can you verify that that's the initial cost and there could be more?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Essentially, there could be more. We want to see this project functioning in the mid-teens to be able to ensure we maintain a competitive edge. We are in discussion with the Government of Ontario at the deputies level. We've had discussions with Ontario on the link between the bridge and of course the 417. Those discussions are ongoing.

We are looking at a governance structure once we have the environmental assessment that should be made public in the coming months. We'll be looking at a governance structure. I've raised this issue with the American authorities, the Secretary of Transportation, Madam Peters. Discussions are ongoing with the Government of Michigan. This is a project to which this government is fully committed and wants to make sure it's going to be done.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I can say the communities in the region are particularly pleased. The access road you talked about from the end of the 401 to the new border crossing is a provincial responsibility, yet we've committed to 50% of the eligible capital costs on that road. It's a very strong statement to the region, and I know we're going to be looking forward to what the allocations are going to look like.

I want to switch to something else, the Building Canada Fund, as it's being conceived. In our region, for example, we're looking at—and this speaks more to priorities I think than specific estimates—recreation complexes, things that will have benefits with respect to reducing health care costs by improving the health outcomes of Canadians. Is that a priority being considered for a fund like this or something coming up? I know our region is looking in particular. Some regional facilities are being mulled over, potentially Olympic-sized swimming pools, things of that nature that would be critical to quality of life in our region and certainly in regions throughout Canada. Is that a priority we're considering? Is that on the table?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Let me back that up a bit before responding.

Last year I had the mandate to go out and seek provincial opinion as well as territorial opinion on a series of issues, including that specific issue. Our colleague Tony Clement was in Whitehorse not long ago to meet with his counterparts, particularly the ministers responsible for sport and recreation.

At that time we looked at--and are entertaining as we speak--the possibility of doing something in our new programs. I don't want to tell you it's a priority, but at the behest of the provinces we're looking at that possibility.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I would encourage you to go down that route.

If I can just shoehorn something in here, I have one last item.

You mentioned that you'll be going to cabinet with details “soon”; I think that was the word used in your statement. Are we down to days, weeks, months...?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I think we're down to weeks.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay, fair enough.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Zed.

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Cannon. We appreciate you and your colleagues being here.

I have a series of quick questions on a variety of different issues; you're a minister who covers a lot of waterfront.

I want to ask you first about the Transport Canada open skies agreements. I understand that these agreements that you're negotiating, or are commencing to negotiate, with some of the Middle Eastern countries are following similar agreements that you've reached with the United States and Ireland. And while I think that's positive, I'm interested in hearing about the progress of the negotiations with the European Union and Mexico, countries that make up the vast majority of destinations for Canadian travellers. In January the EU in particular expressed interest in completing such a deal with Canada.

Can you provide the committee with an update on the status of negotiations with the European Union and Mexico? And if you can't do that today, could you get someone to provide that information to the committee?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I'd be pleased to provide you with an update on that one.

We announced our open skies, or blue skies, policy back in the month of November of last year. We immediately were besieged with a lot of requests from a lot of trading partners and of course different countries.

Immediately following our announcement, the European Union did indicate some interest and wanted to know what was happening. We did dispatch some officials there. It was an exploratory meeting with these officials. In the same way, two weeks ago I had the opportunity to meet the secretary of transport for the Mexican government. They also indicated a keen interest in open skies, but no formal negotiations have commenced in that area.

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

Thank you.

The big city mayors have urged Ottawa to share a penny of the GST. I was curious to know your response or reaction to the decision of the 22 largest mayors in the country to put forward that concept.

Also, while you're thinking about that answer, perhaps you wouldn't mind responding to the request by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities that they be given some sort of permanent position or “seat at the table”; I think that's the term that's often used. As you well understand, Minister, the moneys that get spent under a federal-provincial-municipal agreement require that a third of the money come from a local municipality or a community.

I'm wondering what your opinion is on that subject.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

At the outset, may I indicate that in Budget 2007, we did carry on the gas tax from 2010 to 2014, which significantly means an additional $8 billion to Canadian communities and municipalities throughout the country.

On the gas tax issue, as you are well aware, during the last campaign we committed to reducing the GST from 7% to 6% to 5%. As a government, we committed to reducing that GST for all of the population. We didn't commit to hand it over to another level of government.

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

In your discussion about a Pacific gateway, I am wondering if you have given any consideration to an Atlantic gateway. I know the previous government had also talked about, in similar language, a different kind of program.

Obviously, I'm from the maritime provinces, and between my colleague from New Brunswick Southwest and myself, we share the fifth largest border crossing in the country. I think it would be a wise investment if moneys were available for the Atlantic region in conjunction with some sort of cooperation with ports in Saint John and Halifax and throughout the Atlantic, as well as highway infrastructure. I was wondering whether or not moneys might be considered or allocated for an Atlantic gateway.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Well, Mr. Zed, particularly in Budget 2007, there is an amount of $2.1 billion, if I'm not mistaken, that has been allocated to gateway strategies. That does, of course, include, notionally, Atlantic Canada as well as central Canada. Those are things that we will be pursuing. They are a priority. We believe it is uppermost, as my colleague Mr. Watson indicated before, in terms of improving and continuing Canada's competition in world markets. That is the key to our success, so we are committed to that.

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

Thank you.

I have one last question. Of course, you might guess what this might be, but in the 2007 federal budget, it did not address one of the most important financial issues in my riding of Saint John. It's a local issue. It's an issue that has continued under a number of different governments. The bridge in Saint John is the only federal structure in Canada that has a toll. Now, I understand it's put on by a federal-provincial-municipal authority. The original cost, Minister, was around $18 million for this bridge. Since the bridge opened in 1968, the citizens have paid approximately $23 million for the bridge, yet we still owe another $23 million. We accept the principle that some costs need to be met for repairing the bridge, but I was wondering whether or not you would consider giving some reasons as to why you wouldn't consider forgiving the debt for the bridge and leaving the authority to be responsible. On either side of the bridge now, as you may know, is a provincial highway--since the original 1968....

Previous ministers have looked at this, and I was hoping that since you would like to look at doing something important for the Atlantic region, you'd consider forgiving the debt.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I was going to ask you, previous ministers looked at it and what was the outcome?

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

It was close. Actually, Minister Lapierre looked at this and came very close, but unfortunately there was a small change of government.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I'm looking at the note my deputy has handed me here. I understand from my note here that the Saint John's Harbour Bridge Authority was part of an agreement that was entered into in 1966 with the Province of New Brunswick, the City of Saint John, and the port authority to assist with the financing and the construction of the bridge until it repaid its debt obligation and became financially self-sufficient through the collection of tolls. I think that's what you mentioned before--

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

Which is going on and on and on.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

The toll has been set at 25¢ for cars, 15¢ if using tokens. It was opened in 1968, I see here. The original loan was $18 million and accumulated debts grew until 1991 to $32 million. Well....

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

You're not going to get your money back anytime soon.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I don't think so. I see here that with the revised budget forecast and proposed toll rates, the authority is confident that it will be able to repay the $22.6 million debt in full by March 2016, the same time that we will--

[Paul Zed, Liberal, Saint John, NB]

You'll be seeking re-election.