Transport Committee on May 30th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I do think there's agreement to move this forward. That's why I've let the conversation continue. I am concerned that we do it right. I will suggest that we bring this back with the motion and the amendment on Monday at 3:30. It will be the first order of business we deal with at that time. I am concerned. We want to place it in the right part and in the right order. I think that will also give the group a chance to have more conversation.

Again, before I move on to the next order of business, I would encourage all members of the committee to access the staff here today if you have concerns or issues about a clause or a phrase. I know that you probably feel comfortable doing that, but I would encourage it if there is that question out there.

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I have no problem with that, Mr. Chair. I succumb to your greater wisdom.

Certainly I would ask the clerk, if possible, to come up with the wording we've discussed and indeed the proclamation, as well.

I will give notice to everyone now that there will be a motion coming forward to extend the hours for this committee to study this bill and to deal with it on a clause-by-clause basis. That motion will be coming forward to the clerk immediately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Okay.

We will get the proper wording, and we will get it circulated to the members of the committee.

Mr. Jean, I don't think it's necessarily the clerk's responsibility to write the amendment and the subamendment. You might want to write it in cooperation with Mr. Laframboise and then present it to the committee through the clerk.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Absolutely.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Okay. With that, again I thank our guests today.

Thank you very much. We'll see you on Monday at 3:30. Have a good weekend.

We're going to move to the next order of business.

We're going to recess for a couple of minutes and then we'll come back to do budgetary questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Welcome back.

We're now going to spend the next little bit of time doing the main estimates. We're reviewing votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, and 75 under Transport.

Joining us is Mr. André Morency. He's the assistant deputy minister.

We welcome you and appreciate your taking the time to be here.

Monsieur Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I don't intend to prolong the debate. At 5:10 p.m., I got a partial response to my questions regarding the amount of money that Transport Canada, in vote 1, I believe, is transferring to the National Capital Commission as compensation for the lost revenues it suffered following amendments made to its lease with the Queensway-Carleton Hospital.

Is this vote 1?

[André Morency, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, ADM's Office, Department of Transport]

The transfer occurred last year. In the department's main estimates for this year, there is no mention of any transfer. The budgets were adjusted for 2007-08. During our last appearance, Mr. Bélanger, you had commented that, last year, in the supplementary estimates, funds had been transferred from vote 1 under Transport Canada to vote 45 under the NCC. You are correct, this was approved by Parliament. The transfer of funds occurred last year.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

How much—

[André Morency]

This year, it's already included, and the budget has been adjusted. So, there will not be a transfer of funds.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Some money from Transport Canada's budget is still going to the NCC, based on information we have received from the minister. For this fiscal year, this amount was $22,908. Is that correct?

[André Morency]

Yes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Every year until 2013, an equivalent amount will be transferred from Transport Canada to the NCC.

[André Morency]

With Parliament's consent, yes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Right.

Now, I have received confirmation that another lease was signed for the years after 2013, but, in the information we were provided this afternoon, the amount has not been confirmed.

[André Morency]

The lease is for $1.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

But, as is the case for the current lease, a $22,908 transfer was made, an amount that was previously agreed upon. Is there a plan to transfer an amount similar to that in vote 1 from Transport Canada to the NCC again to compensate for some shortfalls? What is this amount?

[André Morency]

The amount set out by the NCC after 2013 was $181,000 per year.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Right.

Mr. Chairman, my questions are as follows. What is the justification for taking this money from Transport Canada, which has various statutory responsibilities, which we recognize amd are in complete agreement on, in order to cover the shortfall of another agency that is indirectly subsidizing a hospital? For what reason is Transport Canada providing this money?

[André Morency]

Mr. Bélanger, Transport Canada did not suggest that this come from our budget. The government decided to do so in order to compensate the NCC. Every year, the Treasury Board President presents our department's main estimates, which includes such an adjustment to compensate for this shortfall.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

There must be a reason to justify the transfer of these funds.

[André Morency]

The NCC communicated with the government to get its approval in order to reach an agreement with the Queensway-Carleton Hospital for the amount of $1.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand all that. I don't have a problem with that, Mr. Morency. What I want to know is why Transport Canada is the one making up for this shortfall. Under what program is it doing so? I have looked at the department's plans and priorities, Part III of the Main Estimates, and I have found nothing which would justify this transfer to the public. Where is the transparency? Why is $23,908 per year being transferred and then $181,000 per year, from Transport Canada's vote 1 to the NCC? I simply want to know how the government is justifying this transfer? How is the government justifying this transfer?

[André Morency]

The department has no justification. As I said already, the decision was made by the government, which then informed the department.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

When you say "the government", are you referring to the political part of government?