Evidence of meeting #6 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ports.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Emile Di Sanza  Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport
Janet Kavanagh  Director of Port Policy, Ports Policy, Department of Transport
Ekaterina Ohandjanian  Legal Counsel, Justice Canada

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair (Mr. Mervin Tweed (Brandon—Souris, CPC)) Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to the sixth meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. The orders of the day are consideration of Bill C-23, an act to amend the Canada Marine Act, the Canada Transportation Act, the Pilotage Act, and other acts in consequence.

Similar to the last bill that we did, we have to open it up by saying we're going to start with clause 1, which then allows our witnesses to present and for questions to be asked.

Joining us today from the Department of Transport are Mr. Emile Di Sanza, director general, marine policy; Valerie Devlin, acting senior strategic policy adviser, marine policy; and Janet Kavanagh, director of port policy, ports policy. As well, from Justice Canada, we have Ekaterina Ohandjanian, legal counsel.

Welcome. I'm sure you're familiar with the routine. We'll ask you to present, and then we'll ask our committee members, if they have question, to proceed.

Mr. Di Sanza, please begin.

December 6th, 2007 / 9:05 a.m.

Emile Di Sanza Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, honourable members of the committee.

I'm very pleased to make a presentation to this committee on the proposed amendments to the Canada Marine Act as contained in Bill C-23. This suite of amendments recognizes the underlying importance of marine transportation to the Canadian economy. This is reflected in the proposed changes, initially in the introductory provisions of the act; and indeed, throughout the various measures, the proposed amendments aim to promote the competitive viability and sustainability of Canada port authorities.

The national marine policy of 1995 emphasized the elimination of overcapacity, promoted cost recovery in marine transport, and mandated self-sufficiency for the port authorities. It also instituted a consistent governance structure for all major ports. The objectives of the national marine policy relative to ports have largely been met through the Canada Marine Act, the legislation that introduced a commercial approach to managing the national ports system and marine infrastructure.

Modern transportation infrastructure is important to a country's ability to be competitive in the global market. This ability depends largely on port efficiency and access to the necessary port infrastructure. The national strategic and legislative frameworks governing the ports are reliable, but must be adjusted to respond to new pressures and demands. Greater flexibility is required in the financial tools available to the ports so that they may be competitive on international and domestic markets.

Marine transport and ports are key aspects of the gateways and trade corridor initiatives that have been announced.

On page 3 of the handout, we see that 19 port authorities are part of the national port system. Each region covered by the initiative on gateways and corridors includes a number of port authorities. The Asia-Pacific port and corridor, on the west coast, includes several CPAs, as do those in Ontario, Quebec, and the Atlantic.

The key consultations resulting in the draft amendment, were held in fall 2002 by the Canada Marine Act Review Panel. The panel went to 11 cities and 7 provinces, where it heard more than 75 presentations and received over 140 written submissions. These consultations were exhaustive. They were aimed at all levels of government, port administrations, marine transport companies, marine industry associations and associations representing other modes of transport, namely shipping, logistics companies and union organizations.

The result was the Report on the Review of the Canada Marine Act tabled in Parliament by the Minister of Transport in 2003. This report was subject to ample deliberation and served as a source of information for the department. Regular and ongoing consultations and follow-up with marine stakeholders have also contributed to the ongoing work at Transport Canada on policy development. A number of other events have also contributed to further discussion between stakeholders and parties interested in the marine sector.

The genesis and foundation of Bill C-23 can be found in the former Bill C-61, which was introduced in Parliament in June 2005. Many of the provisions in Bill C-23 indeed build on those of Bill C-61.

Based on representations and more recent stakeholder consultations, the following provisions are proposed: to allow port authorities access to federal contribution funding for infrastructure, environmental sustainability, and security; secondly, to introduce more flexible corporate financing options; thirdly, to improve port governance; fourthly, to complement existing regulations regarding possible amalgamations of port authorities; and finally, to introduce administrative monetary penalties as an alternative enforcement scheme for regulatory infractions on port lands and to streamline certain other enforcement provisions.

During the CMA review, many stakeholders voiced concerns regarding the low profile of the marine industry and requested that the Government of Canada recognize the importance of the marine transportation sector.

Accordingly, the amendment includes the addition of the following into the bill, at clause 3: the introduction would recognize the contribution of the marine sector to Canada's economic health; there would be a new objective confirming the government's commitment toward the success of the ports; and finally, there would be coordination and integration of transportation at ports through enhanced financial and operational flexibilities.

Slide 7 in the presentation deck that was circulated speaks to access to federal contribution funding. Changes in the economics of marine transportation have necessitated a re-examination of the general prohibition that currently exists in the act—that's section 25—against federal funding to Canada port authorities. While ports around the world are receiving increasing funding for capital, environmental initiatives, and security enhancements, Canadian ports are generally prohibited from accessing federal appropriations. The only exception in recent years was with respect to security enhancements at the Canadian port authorities.

Without these changes, Canadian ports will not be well positioned to compete with international ports. An amendment to the Canada Marine Act to make Canadian port authorities eligible to apply for federal contributions for capital costs of infrastructure, environmental sustainability, and security projects would set CPAs on an equal footing with other ports and other transportation sectors. You will find these at clauses 14 and 15.

The bill, however, does not propose the creation of a new funding program. Rather, it would allow Canada port authorities to apply to contribution programs that either currently exist or future contribution programs that may be developed. In all cases, of course, the port authority would have to present a very strong business case that fits the specific program criteria.

Allowing Canada port authorities access to funding for environmental sustainability projects would provide new tools for ports to address environmental concerns through the application of new technologies—for example, to improve emission controls at the ports.

I should point out that the Canada Marine Act is an economic legislative framework. Issues relating to such things as accidental oil spill, spills of noxious substances, releases of invasive species in ballast waters are not addressed in this act, but they are addressed through a number of other statutes and programs.

With respect to security, as of this month any contribution funding for the implementation of security enhancements is no longer available to Canadian port authorities. In order to ensure that Canadian port authorities continue to have access to potential security funding in the future, this amendment would be required.

With respect to financial instruments, page 9 in the deck deals with a modified borrowing regime. Presently Canada port authorities can seek an increase in their borrowing limit by making a request to the Minister of Transport for supplementary letters patent that increase the borrowing limits set out in their letters patent. An increase would require the recommendation of the minister, supported by independent financial assessment of the port authority's debt capacity and ability to remain financially self-sufficient. Approval is then required by the President of the Treasury Board, the Minister of Finance, and finally the Governor in Council.

We are proposing amendments to the act that would allow borrowing based on a code governing the power to borrow in combination with commensurate accountabilities on the part of the board. You will find these at clauses 5, 17, and 18.

Those ports earning revenues of over $25 million a year for three consecutive years—and at this point that would involve Vancouver, Halifax, and Montreal—could, and I stress here “could”, if they chose to do so, implement a commercial borrowing regime that would be subject to a code governing borrowings. This code is detailed and can be found in the documents provided to committee members, part of the briefing binder.

A complementary policy initiative—and this is not reflected in the bill per se—would also provide for a more streamlined process for ports that request changes to existing borrowing limits within the current regime. This policy initiative would provide Canada port authorities with a clear indication of the steps involved and the precise information required for requesting borrowing limit increases. This in turn, we believe, could allow Canada port authorities to better plan their investments in a timely fashion.

Page 10 of your deck deals with governance issues. Other elements of Bill C-23 relate to strengthening the governance provisions of the Canada Marine Act, which would provide greater clarification regarding the terms of appointment for the board of directors. These changes are geared to providing long-term stability in the governance of Canada port authorities. Many of these will be found at clause 10.

Specifically, these amendments would provide for an additional term of reappointment of board members, thereby increasing the maximum tenure for a director from six to nine years, in effect three terms of three years each. In addition, incumbent directors would be able to remain in office until renewed or a new appointment is made, up to a maximum, of course, of the nine years. This would increase overall continuity and stability of the board and ensure that boards are able to continue to function.

These amendments do not, however, change the composition of the board, nor the criteria to become a board member. The majority of board members will also continue to be nominated by the users of the port and appointed by the Governor in Council. Municipal, provincial, and federal governments would continue to appoint a nominee to the board.

Page 11 of the deck speaks to amalgamation. New and emerging trends in the economics of marine transportation have provided an opportunity to explore options that could make Canada port authorities possibly more efficient, competitive, or able to respond more quickly to emerging opportunities and growing business volumes. Of particular interest are integrated port operations, such as amalgamations of port authorities.

An integrated port authority may be a possible and viable option for certain CPAs that are in regional proximity, so as to address competitive pressures in a manner that maximizes business opportunities. This is addressed in various clauses, principally clauses 5, 9, and 16.

With respect to regulations and enforcement, current legislation contains an array of alternatives to court actions. These alternatives are intended to address instances of non-compliance with respect to regulatory offences, and we're not talking here about criminal offences for which criminal prosecutions would obviously continue to apply. But in the case of regulatory violations, alternative enforcement mechanisms such as an administrative monetary penalty regime would offer a more efficient, more cost-effective way for both the enforcement officers and users to respond to enforcement issues while utilizing a recognized independent review and appeal mechanism.

I turn now to the complementary policy initiatives that support the proposed amendments.

I spoke earlier about a key policy initiative as it relates to streamlining the process for borrowing limits. We've developed guidelines to streamline and simplify the current process. These guidelines are contained in your briefing binder. These guidelines would provide Canada port authorities with a clear indication of the steps involved and the precise information required prior to requesting a borrowing limit increase. We believe, by virtue of clearer, more precise guidelines in this respect, that some of the issues associated with seeking borrowing limit increases in the past would be precluded.

Finally, there is a second key policy initiative that relates to land management flexibility. Transportation sectors are increasingly facing pressures related to land holdings. Some key ports are facing encroachment from developers or facing capacity limitations, which are adding pressures on the preservation of critical port lands or transportation corridors, particularly in, but not strictly limited to, the urban areas.

It's important to find the right mechanism to maintain ports as economic generators for national, regional, and local economies. Equally important, we need to find ways to encourage ports to invest in and manage land holdings for the long term. Such effective short-term use of properties under port management by way of leasing or licensing to third parties would be desirable. This would assist Canada port authorities in generating revenues on those lands until such time as the port was ready to develop the property for port purposes. This would be done principally through supplementary letters patent, which would be issued for each Canada port authority.

It should be noted that the legislative change related to land management—and that is in clause 23 of Bill C-23, which proposes amendments to subsection 45(3.2) of the Marine Act—is being made simply to bring clarity and transparency to the existing provisions. The rest, with respect to this policy initiative, would be done by virtue of the letters patent.

It is important to note that all permitted activities would need to be compatible with port operations and must take into account the land use plans of adjacent communities. A number of strict conditions will need to be met before these lands can be leased for interim uses, and these conditions will be required to be included in the leases between the port authority and the third party. This is outlined in an issue paper, which we've provided in the briefing binder that was circulated to committee members.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. My colleagues and I would be pleased to respond to any questions that committee members may have.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you, Mr. Di Sanza.

Mr. Bell.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Don Bell Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome.

I have a few questions that relate to, first of all, the references you made to the changes in the access to federal contribution funding. I see that terminology used, and you say the port authorities will have access to contribution program funding, and then you mention the three things: infrastructure, environmental sustainability, and security. It takes away the existing access to federal grant programs and replaces it with these three. I'm wondering who they will be competing against for these funds. Or are there going to be specific funds earmarked for port authorities?

Part of the background for that question is that on the west coast—I can speak with some experience—we have a natural advantage of a sea route anywhere from one to one and a half days from Asia; for example, from Shanghai. We can take advantage of that, particularly with the new port at Prince Rupert and with Vancouver port. And then with the appropriate rail connections we can get goods into the midwest, into Chicago for example, and parts of Canada, central Canada, up to two days faster than it can coming from other routes. The U.S. has been responding over the last few years in anticipation of some of this by updating their ports. They're not sitting back idly while we're moving ahead. And there was competition coming from Central America and South America in terms of international trade.

On the package of the funding that's available, I think the restructuring is good in terms of allowing the ports to have additional borrowing capacity. I guess I'm concerned that if they are going to get this, are they going to be then competing with municipalities? Are they going to be competing with other bodies for these funds? Is there going to be the proper emphasis required from the federal government on this?

The other question I have that flows out of that is in terms of the use of their lands. I know that, for example, again, on the north shore, my riding of North Vancouver, the port authority had the opportunity to acquire land as it became available. I'm thinking of what later became an auto mall right on the waterfront. If they had had the capacity to purchase that land in advance of their needs, but within their anticipated needs, they could have then leased that out for some other use for a period of time, but purchased it well in advance, and that wasn't possible.

I'm wondering if you can comment on that.

9:25 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

Sure, I would be quite pleased to.

I guess there are a couple of elements in your question, and I'll deal with them systematically.

First of all, with respect to access to contribution funding for these capital projects—and we have singled out specific areas, no doubt—we would expect port authorities to work in conjunction with other parties--provinces, municipalities, third parties, terminal operators, railways, logistics providers. There could be a number of different parties that would come together in terms of a particular project. Even now, of course, port authorities do work closely with private parties in terms of development projects. The advantage they would have, of course, under this new regime is that they would be eligible for contribution funding, which they are not now.

So the first point is that we would expect them to go forward, on a partnership basis, with a multitude of other interests.

Who would they be competing against? Presumably they would be competing against other transportation projects. There may be several even within the confines of a port authority that may be up for consideration. For example, the gateways and borders contribution funding would have to be on a merit-based approach. I mentioned earlier that a very strong business case would have to be outlined. It would need the support, obviously, of other interests, in some cases the province.

Would they be competing necessarily with municipalities? Not necessarily, if they're operating in conjunction with some of the municipalities. As I understand it, as well, some of the infrastructure programs that have been announced would be principally targeted to provinces and municipalities, and they would not necessarily involve port authorities.

So on the one hand, it's a partnership approach; on the other hand, they are looking at very specific programs, such as gateways and borders, that would be primarily tailored to port authorities and their partners in that respect.

With respect to the question of the land—

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Don Bell Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Before you leave that question, do you expect, then, that there will be some additional funds allocated or shifted from the previous sources, so that in fact we won't see them now having to compete with an existing pie that they didn't having to compete with before?

Do you understand what I'm saying?

9:30 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

That ports will not...?

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Don Bell Liberal North Vancouver, BC

Yes.

9:30 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

Well, now they're not competing for any funds whatsoever. Some of their partners may be eligible for some of those funds, but port authorities are not, and that has been a real impediment. It's an issue that has been raised with regard to their competitive ability relative to other ports in North America, something that is being addressed.

As to the point you raise as to whether funds are going to be reallocated, I can't really answer that, but I'd willing to seek information from those who are responsible—

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Don Bell Liberal North Vancouver, BC

If I can just clarify, one of my concerns is that in the U.S. there are bills, there are funding sources deliberately targeted for ports. There have been what I think are called T-bills, in which the money is specifically available because the U.S. government recognizes that ports are part of the economic backbone, that they are generators. So there's money targeted for them specifically.

That relates to the whole issue of municipal taxation of ports. As a former mayor, I can tell you, that was the argument raised many times.

9:30 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

Indeed, you're absolutely correct, it's an issue that we've considered very carefully and seriously over the years, because it has been raised by various interests, not just the port authorities but those that use the ports and those that benefit from the cargo that is either imported or exported from the ports.

We've taken a close look at the regimes in the U.S. Whereas in Canada we have a consistent regime, clearly defined in the Canada Marine Act, clearly laid out in the letters patent for each port authority, what we have found in looking at the regime in the U.S. is that there are many different models. Some of the ports are run by the county, others are run by the state, others are independent, others have a different relationship with the federal government, and a port authority in the U.S. doesn't necessarily just deal with port operations. For example, as regards one that is very well known, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, I believe that only 5% of their total operations relates to ports. The rest is a multitude of other elements. Clearly, they do receive funding, in some instances, but does it go for port operations or does it go for a multitude of other related operations that the port authority may be involved in? That has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis.

What we're doing here, though, within a very clearly defined policy objective, is to put Canadian port authorities on an equal footing with other ports in North America and around the world and to ensure that they can work more effectively with their private partners or with the public authorities—the province and municipalities—to allow them to receive federal appropriations, something that they can't do now.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Monsieur Laframboise.

9:30 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Di Sanza, part of your presentation made me laugh. Your speech was written by staff at the minister's office; that is clear to everyone. If we talk about Canada's ports in relation to other ports in the world, in terms of equality, I would say that the ports along the St. Lawrence through the Great Lakes are what trouble me. There are inequalities within Canada.

Marine traffic is increasing by 600% in the world, but on the St. Lawrence, between 1980 and today, it has gone down. It has gone from 130 million to 105 million tonnes. On the St. Lawrence Seaway, traffic has gone from 70 million to 50 million tonnes. There is a reason there has been less traffic in the St. Lawrence-Great Lakes corridor. You are probably well aware of the major issues involved. Icebreaking fees and a number of other factors apply to this corridor that do not apply elsewhere.

Off the cuff, I am more or less in favour of this bill, but I would like to know which ports will benefit. As far as I know, the Port of Montreal does not have much debt. Accordingly, increasing the borrowing rate will have no impact on that port in particular. Currently, which Canadian port truly needs this bill?

9:30 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

If we are talking about the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Great Lakes—in some cases, goods that move through the St. Lawrence in fact move through the Great Lakes, as you know—the market has different dimensions.

I will begin by answering your question on which ports might benefit.

There are two components to this bill. One is on the level of borrowing. As you were saying, the Port of Montreal does not have any need in that area. That is a choice its administrators can make if they want.

However, as far as access to the contribution program is concerned, the ports of Montreal, Saguenay, Sept-Îles, Trois-Rivières and Quebec City could all benefit from it or have access to it. They do not have this type of thing right now.

Secondly, Transport Canada, in cooperation with our U.S. counterparts, has just issued a report on the results of economic, environmental and infrastructure studies of the St. Lawrence Seaway in its entirety, where bulk is being transported already, and of the markets on the Great Lakes. The report provides an overview of potential new markets on the Great Lakes and along the seaway.

One thing that is very important in this policy initiative is short sea shipping, or short distance marine transport.

9:30 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

You mean cabotage?

9:30 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

Some use the term “cabotage”, but it has different connotations. Let us talk instead about short sea shipping.

There are people assessing the potential of the Great Lakes, where there is a huge market for container transport, for example.

St. Lawrence seaway officials, together with various ports in Quebec and Ontario, are assessing the possibility of perhaps one day transporting containers. There is also potential for bulk markets. There has been growth in some products and a decline in others.

9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Except that these are all investments that are not included in the bill. The government could invest in this in a development policy for the incredible St. Lawrence-Great Lakes corridor. The Mississippi has seen an increase, while we have had a reduction. The St. Lawrence-Great Lakes corridor has not been properly cared for. It is not serious. It is not your fault. It is the government's responsibility.

As far as the short-term gain this bill will provide, you said there may be some investment that can be made. Everyone would be eligible for the infrastructure program.

In terms of borrowing, which port needs this bill as soon as possible?

9:35 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

That depends on the board. There are some ports that have some flexibility in their borrowing limit. Others have almost reached their limit. However, only the three largest ports would have more freedom on the international trade market. The others are nonetheless subject to the system that currently exists under law.

The only change is that clearer guidelines have been set if ever a port wants to increase its borrowing limit.

9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Which port has almost reached its limit and needs this bill?

9:35 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

We could find out and get back to you.

In fact, you can find this information in the notes in your folder. But we can find the information and let you know, if you like.

9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Great.

9:35 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

The last point you raised, if I may, is on the St. Lawrence Seaway. As you know, the federal government still owns the infrastructure. In 10 years, almost $300 million—$295 million, I believe—has been invested to maintain that infrastructure, under another program. But the seaway is nonetheless the federal government's responsibility.

9:35 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

That is exactly it. This is why I am saying that in terms of competitiveness, the costs—aside from icebreaking fees, which also must be paid elsewhere—that is something else we will have to examine.

I want us to be competitive in the world, but perhaps we should be competitive within Canada. When the costs of one infrastructure are higher than another's, in one way or another, we become less competitive. And if we start programs to develop the others, our competitiveness will decrease even further if, from the start, it is more expensive to transport goods on the St. Lawrence and the Great Lakes.

9:35 a.m.

Director General, Marine Policy, Department of Transport

Emile Di Sanza

A large part of the recently released study on the Seaway and the Great Lakes had to do with potential new markets on the St. Lawrence Seaway.

9:40 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

I hope so, because this bill will not put that in place.