Transport Committee on April 28th, 2009

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, ministers, for appearing today. I want to assure you that in my meetings with mayors and reeves and provincial ministers throughout the country, they are telling me exactly what you have said here today, that this government is getting results, and getting results quickly, positive results.

I want to thank you, Minister Merrifield, in relation to one particular announcement. I see that this government is moving forward, not just in investing for today's jobs but for tomorrow's jobs. Really, I believe what we are doing as a government is creating productivity for our future. Among those investments that we're making, key investments, are the Windsor corridor, for instance, where a huge portion of Canada's trade is taken to the United States, and the many jobs there, not just for today but tomorrow.

There's also my own area of Fort McMurray, which produces somewhere in the neighbourhood of 6% of the gross domestic product of this country. There was a recent announcement of some $53 million for two overpasses and a widening of a road where, on a daily basis, there's a four-hour delay in traffic that should only take somewhere under an hour to get back and forth from plant sites.

People seem to think I'm pushing my own agenda here, for my own constituents, but the reality is that 35,000 to 50,000 people who work in that area are from other parts of the country, and actually return that money home to other parts, including Newfoundland, most of Atlantic Canada, and Ontario. Some 85,000 jobs two years ago were directly or indirectly from Ontario, and 30,000 were from the province of Quebec. This money goes back directly to the provinces, and to the communities and the homes, in all parts of Canada.

So I think those investments were absolutely critical, and I'd like to compliment whoever made that decision. Those two overpasses were a safety concern. They were causing deaths and they were causing tremendous delays. So my compliments in relation to that.

I'm not sure if you'd like to add anything further in relation to that particular investment.

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I think way too much is made of whether infrastructure projects happen in specific ridings or not. What I'm consumed with is making sure that the infrastructure projects announced are ones that are needed, that are bought into by municipalities, if possible, and provinces for sure, so that they're not politically interfered with.

The project you've described is a significant amount of money in a riding. But it's a riding where, as you've described, people come to work from all across this country. It's very important that infrastructure is kept up for the benefit of the country. I believe Fort McMurray is around 5% of GDP, or a little over. That's a pretty significant amount of GDP from one little area.

Not only that, you talked about the Windsor area and the Windsor corridor. You're talking potentially $1 billion of trade a day going across that border at peak times. That's significant. Minister Baird and I were able to talk to Secretary LaHood with regard to making sure that we do what we can to be able to move traffic along cross-border as well.

This has nothing to do with politics, right, left, or anywhere in between. This is about building Canada to be able to compete in the 21st century. Nobody likes to go into debt, but if we do it right, we will be able to come out of this, when the economy turns around, much stronger, much better, more able to compete internationally. In my view, that's the way to succeed into the 21st century.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Minister Merrifield.

I also am interested in what's happening in Atlantic Canada. Many of my constituents are, quite frankly, from Atlantic Canada, and return there. I'm interested in Marine Atlantic in particular, and some of the capital possibilities.

Is this government looking at, or potentially investigating, capital funding in Marine Atlantic and some of the expansion of facilities there for the people of Atlantic Canada?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I was just to Atlantic Canada, visiting Sydney. Actually, I've been there twice. I went there once earlier to sort of kick the tires of Marine Atlantic. It's part of my portfolio to understand a little bit of their difficulties. This last year.... I'll be honest with you; when you only have a 10% success rate in being on time, that's not good enough, as far as I'm concerned. It has to be changed.

So we were over, looking at how we can improve the service for the people of Newfoundland and North Sydney. We are pleased to announce that we were able to launch a new vessel. This new vessel has 40% more capacity. It's a tremendous vessel that should be the pride of their fleet for sure, and the pride of Canada. It really is a phenomenal vessel that will give us an opportunity to be able to enhance service in that area and really make a significant difference. The captain of the ship tells me that it goes through the ice much better than any of the vessels in the fleet. It's performing above their expectation.

But Marine Atlantic does need some infrastructure work, on both shores, in North Sydney as well as the Newfoundland side, Port aux Basques and some other areas. I'm not trying to underplay in terms of what the ship will do; it does need some more attention. We're hoping that we'll be able to work hand in glove with Marine Atlantic. I know that the board is really working hard to try to provide the service.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Chair, I only have a minute, but would I be able to turn it over to Mr. Watson for a question? He did have one in particular that he wanted to ask.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

There's 20 seconds if he can get it done.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Very briefly, the budget talked about upgrades to the VIA Rail station in Windsor. Obviously there's some negotiation around that. Are we getting close to some agreement and moving forward on that particular issue?

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Watson's trying to pre-empt an announcement or something.

I can tell you that there's $407 million for enhancing the rail service, and we'll be doing improvements all along the line there. I can't tell you at the present time specifically what we're doing in that station, but I can say that I believe Canadians should be very proud of what we're doing to enhance service in that area. You'll probably be very pleased as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you. That does complete the round.

I have a question, if I may. I've heard this raised from members of this committee and other members of Parliament.

With the $2 billion fund that's set up to assist, I'm assuming, smaller municipalities and jurisdictions, if I'm a municipality that's been approved for the Building Canada fund but I'm short on my third, is there an application process, or is that done prior to your approval at Building Canada?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Diane Finley, the Minister of Human Resources, who's responsible for CMHC, takes the lead responsibility for that. I would encourage you to contact her and she'll give you all the details that you or the municipalities in your constituency would need.

One of the things that the Prime Minister did was to ensure that HRSDC is doing a significant amount of work on the stimulus. So too are Industry Canada, our department, and the regional economic development agencies to ensure that we can spread the workload and make sure that we can get the job done. I think that was a wise decision. For example, Minister Finley does significant investment in housing. Minister Clement and Minister Goodyear are doing significant investments in post-secondary education capital, which is good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I should talk to Madam Finley.

We are wrapping up, but I'm going to go around the table again and offer three minutes to each party. Then we'll see where the clock is.

Mr. Kennedy.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, with respect to the year finished and referenced in the estimates, what tally of jobs do you have? We know that you underspent last year by about $1.3 billion based on your estimates, but in terms of jobs, can you tell us what you created in terms of actual jobs? And how much of that could you table with us today in terms of the outcomes of those? That's not the infrastructure stimulus fund--you sort of responded to that--but on the other programs. I guess they're all emanating from the 2007 budget.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Certainly anything we have we'd be happy to table with the committee.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Is there anything you can discuss with us today?

Again, this is for expenditures that are already finished, and I guess we would have a better handle on that than the ones that haven't been spent yet.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I guess for Building Canada the first objective was infrastructure. For the stimulus, the first objective is short-term job creation, so they're obviously a different mix.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I understand, but I'm saying that money was spent and you're looking for more. We're supposed to concur here, or not, on the estimates. We're looking for outcomes here. We know you underspent. That's one outcome. But of the money you did spend, surely you have a handle on what it did generate. Could we get the jobs? Also, would it be possible to table the stages?

We've had a number of projects announced, but there is a stage where there is an actual contract--or as you call it, an agreement--with the entity, whether it's a province, municipality, and so on. Then there's a stage in which they actually start construction and then there's the stage in which they invoice you and money actually flows.

I think everyone knows that only 5% of the money from your new programs flowed last year. I think it's fairly essential on a due diligence part—not to interfere with the operations—if you can generate a list for us. Your staff referenced in committee that such a thing was possible to tell us where the projects are at, where they've been announced politically or in a news release, and when the actual agreements were signed and can therefore go ahead. Then they could tell us when the actual project is in progress and when you're starting to pay on that project. This would be a standard for all funds.

Obviously you've underspent quite a bit in the last few years, and it would be helpful for the public to see the stages Infrastructure Canada projects are at, both for proposed extensions of the existing programs and the new programs that are here for the stimulus. Is that possible?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'm confused, because you said we only spent 5% of the money for the new programs.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Your accountability document showed last year.... If you look at the new programs promised under the budget, only 5% of the programs your government promised, as opposed to the continuation of previous ones, actually were spent. So the Building Canada fund, the border crossings fund, and so on.... We discussed this in a previous committee, Minister, and I'm not the least bit offended that you don't remember, but it is what your accountability document shows, if you separate that out.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

But the new programs are effective in the 2009-2010 fiscal year, so obviously we couldn't spend.... It would be zero--

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

No, no. The Building Canada fund had 2008-2009, and you spent either nothing, or $300 million of it was supposed to be spent on the new program--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

When you said the new programs, did you mean the old programs like Building Canada--

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

The ones you announced in the 2007 budget, and because of that fact, that they were underspent--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

They weren't--

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

You have made announcements. Could we see the difference?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Anything we have on the shelf we'd certainly be happy to provide to the committee.