Transport Committee on Oct. 26th, 2009

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

You have section 43 for that.

[Jean-Paul Murray]

I think Mr. Nadeau signed section 43 last week. Perhaps you should make your comment to Mr. Nadeau.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Murray, thank you for your comments. I find you very positive.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Ms. DesRoches, earlier you gave the example of the Plaisance National Park as an example of cooperation between sectoral stakeholders and the people who work on the park project, which is a Quebec provincial park. Is that correct?

[Nicole DesRoches]

Yes.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

That park is relatively new, if I'm not mistaken.

[Nicole DesRoches]

Yes, it's the most recent.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Do you see the same operation in the management, for example, of the NCC and of the green spaces? Do you see the same major interest for citizens and for wilderness protection groups?

[Nicole DesRoches]

The NCC is increasingly conducting consultations and establishing committees. However, there is no official harmonization committee, as for all Quebec parks.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right.

[Nicole DesRoches]

A number of committees are unofficial or ad hoc committees.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Are you suggesting that this kind of thing is provided for under the act?

[Nicole DesRoches]

Absolutely.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

In that way, it would be possible to gather the opinions of people in the sector through an official, not unofficial process.

[Nicole DesRoches]

Absolutely. An official committee could involve local authorities, the cities, provinces and the NCC. There is an unofficial tripartite committee that meets twice a year, but I believe it should be official for there to be some consistency among the various planning processes.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Murray, in your brief, you talk about Bill S-210 and make two recommendations. You say this: “The first is based on section 4(1) of the National Parks Act.”

That states that Gatineau Park is created for the Canadian people. Then you say: “The second proposed amendment is inspired by section 8(1) of the National Parks Act:” and quote this excerpt: Maintenance or restoration of ecological integrity, through the protection of natural resources and natural processes, shall be the first priority of the Commission when considering all aspects of the park's management.

You're talking about maintenance or restoration. Can you tell us more precisely what you mean by that?

[Jean-Paul Murray]

Before answering your question, I would like to provide you with a little context.

With Mr. Broadbent and Ms. Spivak, we prepared proposals for the purpose of tabling private member's bills. However, during the meetings that preceded the renewal of the NCC's mandate, people told us that didn't take enough account of ecological integrity and that amendments therefore had to be made. These two proposed amendments were accepted by the Senate committee.

With respect to restoration, when a house reaches the end of its life cycle, as they say at the NCC, it is demolished and an attempt is made to “renaturalize” the location. I also believe that the NCC's mandate is to reclaim municipal roads within the park. That's stated in the master plans; I didn't invent that. I suppose that means that, in the event an obsolete municipal road is reclaimed, the asphalt is removed and an attempt is also made to “renaturalize” the location. An example of this might be what the NCC did at Kingsmere when it created the foot bridge to the Mackenzie King estate. It removed the old road and “renaturalized” it all.

So we're talking about “renaturalizing” the areas where that should be done. I believe that Bill C-37 should recognize this principle because, in its current form, it could conflict with the park master plan. The plan defines conservation as an ultimate priority. If we say we want to grant a right of review or to manage ecological integrity somewhat, that doesn't necessarily mean we'll consider that situation as being of the utmost importance.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right.

Ms. DesRoches, I'm thinking of the very structure of the NCC and its transparent and democratic aspect—we can see what goes on there. People from across Canada take part in the management and even in the decisions of the NCC.

As for the number of people involved, do you believe that a change should be made? Do you think that people in the sector, who work on the ground, could be more involved and in a more direct way, without the nature of the NCC's role being altered?

[Nicole DesRoches]

I think it's six members from elsewhere in Canada and six local members. When we made our presentation, at the revision stage, it lacked a little biodiversity, as it were. It was mainly business people. I've got nothing against them, but it would have been interesting for a broader variety of people to be present.

I think committees have to be established at the local level. The NCC is still dealing with the fact that it has a national mandate but that its action is local. Those two aspects clearly should combine. As regards the Commission's decisions, having regard to what could be called the separation of powers, particularly as regards Gatineau Park and possibly the Green Belt, there could be local committees. That would enable joint action at the local level.

In recent years, there has been a lot of grumbling. Lands have been put in the non-national interest land bank, but we've never known how or why. In that sense, I believe that a lot of friction could have been avoided. The Commission holds its board meetings publicly, but obviously fewer people attend them during the day. I think the local population would prefer to be part of a committee that had a more restricted mission and handled really local issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Merci.

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing.

Just so that I'm abundantly clear on the position of our panellists, which of you wants Gatineau Park to be established as a national park—any of you?

[Jean-Paul Murray]

None of us does.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

None at all? Okay, but you want essentially the same management style. Just don't call it—