Evidence of meeting #8 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was arctic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
We've run out of time. We will come back, if you prefer.
Mr. Bevington.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I enjoyed my colleague's line of questioning, because one of the things we can look to quite clearly for further understanding of what's going to happen in the extension area is what is now in place for the present 100-mile limit. If we extrapolate from where we're at in terms of our ability to provide environmental cleanup in the Arctic, I think it would be good to see the department tabling its plans for dealing with, for example, oil spills in the Arctic and how it plans to deal with the area over which it already has jurisdiction for environmental issues.
Can you give us that kind of information?
4:40 p.m.
Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
I am sure the information can be provided. The response to an oil spill is the responsibility of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans through the Canadian Coast Guard. If something goes into the water, the response is part of Canadian Coast Guard responsibilities. They have an integrated plan throughout the Arctic, both by having the presence of icebreakers and by having containers across the Arctic for those purposes.
From the perspective of Transport Canada, what we are trying to do is avoid that ever happening. Therefore, our regulations are directed at the construction, the equipment, and the operation of the vessel so that we avoid a spill.
4:40 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
I think that might be true, but for us to determine your ability to do that we have to understand how the other departments work as well. It's not good enough for you to say you can set this up so they aren't going to happen. We need to know they are going to happen, and we've seen that off the coast of Antarctica, where we lost a cruise ship. According to the admiral I interviewed, who was in charge of the area around Greenland and the waterways there, the most likely accident to occur is with cruise ships. The problem there is that there is not the mandatory control over cruise ships and the kinds of things that would guarantee that these vessels are going to perform adequately in Arctic conditions.
When you look at even the Beaufort Sea, we've had projections that there'll be open water to the pole in 10 years. It seems incredible for someone who has looked at the North Pole on a map for their entire life, when it has been covered with ice, that we could be sailing into that area. There's where we're likely going to have the problems with ships.
I think it's essential that before we move ahead with increasing the area we're proposing to protect here, we understand quite clearly how we're going to do it. If it can't be given now, perhaps we have to integrate that into the bill so that we get the information that the government is simply not putting this forward without a carefully thought-out plan.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
I was just wondering whether, in preparation for this--as the bureaucracy always does its homework--you consulted with any other countries.
4:40 p.m.
Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
Yes, we are aware that the Department of Foreign Affairs consulted with other countries in the proposal.
Perhaps I should correct that to say we informed other countries rather than consulted.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
Maybe we should have them in.
Do you happen to know if you or your department had any unsolicited input from any other countries, either phone calls, e-mails, letters, or discussions?
4:40 p.m.
Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
No, I do not know that.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
My last question is related to search and rescue, to where these ships will be going that we will be monitoring. There are hundreds of flights over the pole. Someone mentioned the cruise ships in the area. Yet there is no fixed-wing search and rescue north of 60o. As the Department of Transport, don't you find that to be less than optimal, if not problematic?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
The search and rescue area covers both the current and the extended zone. It is no different from that perspective. As I said earlier, on the largest portion of the extension, which is north of the Beaufort Sea, there is very little, if any, shipping there at any particular time of the year.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
My question would be this. It's inadequate where it is now, so if you extend it, it is also going to be inadequate, because the whole fleet is down by the U.S. border.
I'll leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
I'm just following up
. I think what you're saying is that there was some coordination going on among ministries, but it doesn't sound as though there's an overall grand plan. Yet from time to time we hear the government refer to a plan for the north and so on. I was assuming this would be linked into some master document that you have privy to and you could share with us so that we would know there is a plan, that there is actually an outlook, and not just an icebreaker that used to be three now being one, and then a law being passed here that may or may not have application.
I'm wondering, perhaps a little more provocatively, if you could give us an idea. Is there is a plan you could direct us to at the bureaucratic level that might lay out a bit of a blueprint here, so that we know, having done this, that there are other steps we may take to pay full and good attention to the potential and the responsibilities we have north of 60o?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
Well, in that context there is the plan, and the plan is indeed with the lead department, which is Indian and Northern Affairs, which is part of the northern strategy. That is the grand plan, if you will.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
So where would we find the details of that plan? Because there were a number of questions today that seemed to be hard to get answers for. I assume they might be found in this master plan.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
If I may interrupt here, we do have representatives from Indian and Northern Affairs coming in on Thursday.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Mr. Chairman, I'm really just trying to see how coordinated we are and whether DIAND is just sort of saying, okay, please do this, or they are calling on the different areas of expertise, and that's the result of the plan.
4:45 p.m.
Director General, Marine Safety, Department of Transport
I think Indian and Northern Affairs is the coordinator for the entire northern strategy. We, as public servants in front of this committee, are here to talk about the Arctic Waters Pollution Prevention Act and the power of the Minister of Transport to make regulations on that particular issue.
To respond a bit to Mr. Kennedy, as part of the plan, on a yearly basis, there is coordinating activity with the Canadian Coast Guard that takes place on Arctic waters pollution prevention. We can give you information on that.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Certainly, and I heard that well described by your colleague.
Just to make a distinction, perhaps, the minister didn't seem to be aware of a plan. He was going to look for a plan, and I was wondering if there was an encompassing plan as opposed to coordination activity. I think the answer is that DIAND has an outlook, and we'll get that from them. But I appreciate that, and I just wanted to draw that distinction.
Do I have time for one more quick question, Mr. Chair?
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Gerard Kennedy Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
In the current 100-mile area, there's oil drilling and there's oil being transported. Is that correct?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Design, Equipment and Boating Safety, Department of Transport
There is not as we speak.