Transport Committee on April 29th, 2010

[John McKenna]

It is not our opinion that the changes are required at this time.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Are the current requirements on our pilots sufficient for them to work effectively in their jobs?

[John McKenna]

They're efficient in the vast majority of cases. In cases of pilot fatigue and so on, companies have to be responsible, but pilots also have to act professionally.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

We mentioned Israel before, and it's sometimes touted as an example. I know, Mr. Skrobica, that you mentioned they are much smaller, but they travel to many places in the world. Some have suggested that we ought to look at what they do in terms of their pre-flight security assessments and at what they do when passengers do go through and fly on their planes. Are they the model we ought to be looking at? If they are, what lessons can we derive from what they do, if any?

[Michael Skrobica]

They're held up as the gold standard because essentially they're at war with a number of groups and covertly a number of countries. Consequently, their efforts are at a peak.

I think what we really need to have is an aviation security system that is comparable to other G-8 countries that has the level of service and air transport markets that are equivalent to Canada's. So I would look more to what the United States or the U.K. have as better examples of aviation security that is appropriate to the Canadian circumstances.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you very much.

For all of us travelling through many airports, we look at the differences between the execution of standards across the country. Should we have one single standard that is applied to airports across the country, with some exceptions? Mr. Nourse, you mentioned there ought to be differences in the north for some very logical reasons.

[Michael Skrobica]

One of the things that perturbs passengers is a lack of consistency Canada-wide. You'll have a computer swabbed down for explosive trace in one location and not in another. There is an advantage to unpredictability, and it's certainly not with the law-abiding travelling public, but it does introduce an uncertainty factor to people who are trying to do something wrong. So there is an advantage, and it is practised both here in Canada and in other G-8 countries as well.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

I never thought of that.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Mr. Gaudet, you have the floor.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chair.

My question is for Mr. McKenna. Costs in Canada are higher than in any other country. Is this justified, in your opinion?

[John McKenna]

We think that the costs have become the highest. We were in second place before the 50%, 52% or 53% increase, depending on the costs—there are three different ones. We have the same questions as you do: is the CATSA well managed, in an effective and efficient manner? We see that it is hiring hundreds of people because of the new measures that were announced after Christmas, and so we are wondering about that.

The minister announced that he would have a study done on the management of CATSA. We are anxious to see the results of that study.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Does the Transportation Safety Board of Canada sometimes ask you for solutions to help solve certain problems, or does it do everything on its own?

[Michael Skrobica]

To date, Transport Canada has managed CATSA through a measure called a security screening order, and we have had an opportunity to be consulted on it when there are significant changes. There was a study with regard to Canada's aviation security and CATSA in particular. I believe it was entitled Clear Skies. It reported back to the minister, and most of the recommendations that we offered were accepted.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

So you are part of the solution.

Is the same true in your case, Mr. Jones? Does Transport Canada call on you?

[Fred Jones]

In previous association lives through the airports council, I've had views on that subject. Our members, helicopter operators, are affected really only insofar as apron security and security as it relates to the perimeter of the airport and the fixed base they're operating from that's outside the terminal. So they're not subjected to pre-board screening the way the airlines are subjected to pre-board screening when their customers pass through the terminal. In previous lives I have had some involvement with that, but it's not an issue that the helicopter community has been engaged in, for those reasons.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

And what about you, Mr. Prud'Homme?

[Marco Prud'Homme]

Insofar as feedback is concerned there is always a dialogue between Transport Canada and the carriers. However, it is sometimes difficult to provide feedback to Transport Canada without having it be automatically returned in the form of a reply or an explanation.We sincerely hope that under the direction of Mr. Eley, the culture of SMS, that is to say to pay close attention to what is happening on the frontlines, will provoke change and put them on the right track. However there are improvements to be made in this regard.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

And what about you, Mr. Nourse?

[Stephen Nourse]

I think Transport Canada has a lot of consultation at times. We're not quite sure how much they listen. I would say that's the way to characterize it. Sometimes they seem to be good meetings and you think you have a good direction and a feel, and then the next week something completely different happens.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. McKenna. You said earlier that the use of scanners was more or less a good idea. You added with regard to the Transportation Security Clearance Program that flight attendants and peace officers should have certificates. I am not entirely sure that I am in favour of this based on what happened in the United States in 2001 when the planes flew into the towers in New York. These were American airplane pilots who got on those planes. You will say that they were probably terrorists, and I agree with you, but had they been subjected to certain clearance checks, they might have been stopped.

Correct me if I am mistaken. I want to understand what happened in 2001.

[John McKenna]

None of the pilots or terrorists involved was a commercial pilot. These were people who had taken an elementary piloting course and took over the cabin. They did not have proper training and they were not employees of airline companies.

[Michael Skrobica]

They were flying as passengers.

[John McKenna]

Indeed, they were passengers on the plane before they took control of it.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Mr. Jean, you have the floor.