Transport Committee on April 29th, 2010

[Michael Skrobica]

It's one of the tools they use.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Yes—

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Mr. Bevington, I'm sorry, but it will have to be in the next round.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

I think we're going to Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing as we undertake a study of aviation safety and security.

I just want to start by correcting a misperception first, if I could. While Ms. Crombie may be new to the scene here, Mr. McKenna, you've been around long enough to be able to follow what happened with the Aeronautics Act originally in some amount of detail. If you'll recall, not only was it filibustered at committee by the New Democrats, but when it ultimately went back to the House we faced a hoist motion to get it off the agenda. So the decision was made at the time by the government to move forward with changes through the regulatory process rather than through the legislative process. So I would suggest there's no lack of priority for the government in addressing SMS, and we are proceeding.

But more to the point of Mr. Jones on the decision with respect to CBAA, Mr. Grégoire, who testified on behalf of Transport Canada at our committee, was very clear that the commitment is to getting it right, and that is in terms of developing capacity both for those who will do the certification as well as for the regulators themselves. So there's more work to be done in that area before we can proceed with other sectors.

I just wanted to make sure that was on the record.

I want to focus my questions, however, around aviation security. Mr. McKenna, maybe we'll start with you on this one. In your experience, when you're looking at the chain of security, from the first time I walk into an airport to the time I'm on a plane, where is the weakest link in that chain of security?

Others who may want to jump in can certainly do so.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Go ahead.

[Michael Skrobica]

A key threshold of security always has been the pre-board screening, and that's the opportunity to screen the passengers and their carry-on baggage. We have installed a very expensive and we believe a very effective electronic system to detect checked baggage screening. It ran in at over a billion dollars Canada-wide.

The threat has changed over the years. The fear was a hijacking scenario, and now we're particularly concerned about a use of explosives to bring down a plane. The threat changed when terrorists wanted to make political statements but still live, and flew the planes to Cuba; now they're quite willing to give their lives in order to make a political statement.

As a consequence, where we didn't spend a lot of time was on the search of the passenger himself. We did the walk-through to detect any kinds of metals. Most bombs require a metal, but there have been some bombs—I'm supposed to use the words “improvised explosive device”—that now don't need to rely on metal, as in wire or a battery or anything along those lines. They can be detonated by other means.

So we're fighting a technological battle. We close up one hole, but the ingenuity of mankind is focused on the other side, and they will find additional loopholes or problems that we're going to have to continue to deal with for decades to come.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Does anybody else want to tackle that question? No.

You've noted in your submission, and it has been noted recently, that long queueing lines pose a safety risk as well. I believe you talked about ways of reducing the size of lines through pre-clearances of some sort--“heightened security clearance”. I'm not sure what kind of a clearance you had in mind. I'm also interested in how you would do that for frequent flyers. You chose some interesting classes: officers of the law, frequent flyers, military personnel. We haven't had a Fort Hood experience, but I thought that was an interesting choice.

How do you envision pre-clearance happening? Is it like a NEXUS-style program being applied to domestic air travellers, in which they would pay a fee and they would have to go through a certain amount of questioning, or would it be some other system on that? Anybody can jump in on that, but we'll start with your suggestions.

[Michael Skrobica]

Any day now, if it's not already in place, a trial is being conducted by CATSA at Pearson airport with the use of NEXUS cards. As you know, NEXUS is a form of screening, because it involves a background check, a review, whether there was any criminal activity, etc. It tends to reduce the size of the haystack so that you can find the needle.

Now, those people who do have NEXUS don't go off scot-free. They are subject to a certain amount of screening, but they aren't necessarily subject to pat-downs, etc., and they are able to move through a queue faster.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

The question that raises, if I can step in for just a moment, is that while that may reduce the queueing, does that not allow for an opportunity for somebody to slip through who could be a potential threat?

I had a look at NEXUS when I used to drive import and export across the Canada-U.S. border for three years, and I chose not to go through it because I thought it was a rather invasive process. I wasn't sure where my information was going to go. But it doesn't necessarily—

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Mr. Watson, the time is up, but I'll let Mr. Skrobica answer your question.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Michael Skrobica]

No system is going to be 100% foolproof. Transport Canada and other security professionals like to describe security as the layers of arming your security—

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

That's where it's going.

[Michael Skrobica]

—and no one thing is going to work. But we believe this is a smart way of trying to identify those people who can pose a problem.

You talk about a Fort Hood situation. Well, I would suspect that if you do your screening properly you're going to try to identify people along those lines.

And you talk about frequent flyers. Maybe the NEXUS card is provided free of charge by the airline in order to expedite their frequent flyers.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

Thank you very much.

We're going on to round two. That will be five minutes of question and answer through all of this.

Mr. Martin.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to all of you for being here today. I know your expertise is very valued by all of our constituents. Most people fly, and we probably fly more than most.

The first question is on the air traveller security charges. What percentage do you receive versus what's taken in? Do you have a sense of that at all?

[Michael Skrobica]

Zero. We do not receive any kind of handling fee or anything along those lines. We collect it on our tickets and remit it to the government.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Okay, thank you.

You're experts in this field. Have you made a list of recommendations to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of screening through our airports?

[Michael Skrobica]

I don't think ATAC has produced a single report or recommendation, but we have made numerous recommendations in the past. It would only be a matter of compiling them and presenting them, and we'd be happy to do that.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

If you could, we'd be very grateful. You're the professionals in the field, and I think the committee would find it very valuable if you were able to do that. It would help us to do our job.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair (Hon. Joseph Volpe), Liberal, Joe Volpe]

So you'd make them available to the clerk for distribution?

[Michael Skrobica]

Yes.

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

We've heard disturbing testimony, particularly from south of the border, in terms of our pilots and fatigue in our pilots contributing to a number of crashes.

Do you suggest that there ought to be changes in terms of the amount of time that pilots are allowed to fly and the break periods they're obliged to have? Do we need to review that and change that?