Transport Committee on March 11th, 2010

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I understand how Mr. Volpe feels.

We were invited by Transport Canada to what I would consider to be an excellent technical briefing a couple of days ago where they actually informed us that these documents were available and they kept track of them.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

But you don't need them. Is that what you're saying?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Volpe, if I may....

They have provided it here today. It's quite an extensive document. We can make copies. It just so happens we have things called photocopiers in this building, and I'm sure we can get copies for you. And if we need to call Transport Canada back, they have shown up with two days' notice, and I'm sure we can have them back here again if necessary. But can we hear the testimony of the witnesses so we can make sure and reassure Canadians of the safety of the situation for them?

Mr. Volpe, if you want I'm certain you can go through this document and we can invite Transport Canada back if you find it necessary to do so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Just understand, Mr. Parliamentary Secretary, that the reason we're having these hearings is because members of the opposition parties--all of them, I imagine--as well as government members, are concerned about the safety of the product that's being permitted on the roads. When the assistant deputy minister is talking to us about how the Motor Vehicle Safety Act applies to ensure that Canadians can feel comfortable about the safety of the product they're engaging and the quality of the product they're engaging, that's what we're interested in. We're not interested in whether there are photocopiers here or not. We know that they accepted and we thank them for accepting to come here before the committee. They should have come prepared. We can't do our job if we're not prepared, and they are depriving us of an opportunity to be appropriately prepared.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

With respect, Mr. Volpe, if I may, Mr. Chair--

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I'm going to stop the debate right here. I'm going to suggest that--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

It was a government member who called this meeting, not the opposition parties.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Order, please.

I'm going to suggest, Mr. McDonald, that I, too, am disappointed you don't have the documents prepared. I know the members have questions. We will do that. We will put a reserve that we will invite you back with the documents you are going to table in both official languages as soon as the day...but I do want to make it clear that we feel....

Order, please.

I am going to proceed with the presentation, but I do ask that you get those documents to this committee as soon as you possibly can. If that means tabling it now so that we can get copies made, or whatever, I do want it; by the end of the day I do want these members to have that document.

Now, can we proceed with the presentation? Then we'll proceed with questions.

[Trevor Lehouillier, Head, Defect Investigations, Defect Investigations and Recalls, Department of Transport]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the opportunity to come and talk about our program and give you some more insight on how we work and what we do.

I'll go to the first slide of the presentation. This is just a quick overview of how we work, somewhat differently, I guess, than the United States. In the United States they have a much larger population and they do receive significantly more complaints than we do here in Canada. In Canada we have a 1-800 line that covers all of Canada, right from B.C. to Newfoundland. If a Canadian consumer has a complaint with respect to safety and it ties back to the manufacturing of the vehicle, you can pick up the phone and call 1-800 and get a trained investigator on the line.

Our investigators screen the calls and put them into a public complaint database. Besides calls, we also have access through the web. We have an online public complaint form, which the consumer can go to our website and complete. You do require a Canadian postal code and a vehicle identification number to get through the process, to verify that we're not getting a bunch of complaints that may not relate to Canadian citizens. We still take complaints via letter, via fax, and the odd time we even have people stop in at our facilities. Our headquarters is located in the east end of Ottawa, and at times people will stop in and visit us.

We also deal a lot with third parties--police agencies, insurance companies, coroners offices, that type of idea. We often will get a call from a police agency where they feel maybe there was an issue in a collision and bring us some information and look for our assistance to try to determine what took place and whether there is a potential that a defect contributed to that crash.

We do approximately 1,200 complaints per year. Do keep in consideration that we are not a consumer agency with respect to dollars and cents. We are an enforcement group. We have badges as enforcement groups. We are enforcing the Motor Vehicle Safety Act, more specifically section 10, “Notice of Defect”. In layman's terms, that is recall.

Every complaint really and truly is an investigation. Some investigations may be very quick, a matter of doing some research through technical websites, through technical databases, through our own database, to try to see what we're aware of. The other thing we have to keep in consideration is safety. If something falls outside of safety, unfortunately it's not our mandate. So if a consumer has a concern such as paint peeling, there's not much we can do with respect to the Motor Vehicle Safety Act. However, we try to lead that person to appropriate agencies that can be of assistance, whether it be a provincial agency, a consumer agency, even small claims court.

Our investigations can consist of not only research but also vehicle testing, part failure analysis, component analysis, and at times we will have vehicles shipped or parts shipped to our headquarters in Ottawa. We'll deal with outside labs as well, including the Transportation Safety Board and the Quality Engineering Test Establishment of the armed forces, as well as private companies.

We also continually communicate with vehicle manufacturers and parts suppliers. Often manufacturers are aware of technical information that we need to get our hands on, and under the act we do have the ability to request that information and the manufacturer has to oblige as to what we request. So if we need engineering documents, that type of idea, we do need to go to that source to get that information.

There are three directions we can head in. We can put something in what we call “monitoring state”. For example, maybe we understand the issue, maybe we've been down that road, or maybe there is one complaint in all of Canada, that type of idea, and safety is minimal. There are different circumstances. We will continually monitor things. If we have one complaint today, if the phone rings tomorrow it could be number two and it might lead us in a different direction. So we are always monitoring what's coming through our door.

Secondly, we can deactivate an issue. Often we'll deactivate an issue when a manufacturer does a safety recall campaign or a notice of defect. They've come to the table and they've indicated they have identified an issue and they're taking corrective action to take care of the consumer. Therefore, we would typically, if we're satisfied with everything, deactivate the file and move on.

There is also the ability to prosecute. What we would do is put together a case file, present it to the attorney general and have them lay a charge under the Criminal Code of Canada, which is a significant difference from the United States. Our charge is to our criminal code; they're not civil. There is the possibility of jail time as well as financial damage, and that prosecution would be for failure to give a notice of defect. That means not notifying owners or not notifying the government of the issue.

This next slide was just put together to demonstrate some of the complaints we've received over the years. You're looking at 2000 to 2010. These are all complaints. So this is not necessarily sudden acceleration, airbag, seat belts. This is everything. The tallest bar in the column is all complaints combined. As for the bars beside it, the first one is Toyota over the years. We have also referenced the other three largest manufacturers in Canada, General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, as a comparison.

When you look at the data, you will see that there is a spike come 2009 and 2010. That spike coincides with September 2009, which of course many of you are aware is when there was a tragic situation in California with respect to a crash that killed four people, alleged to be caused by a floor mat.

The media has done a very good job of bringing this issue out, and it has significantly increased the complaints coming to our door, not only with Toyota but with other manufacturers. I would say that as of today we have over double the complaints we would have received in prior years up to today.

The next slide represents recalls in Canada. The bars represent the population of vehicles and the line represents the number of recalls in Canada.

Recalls are not something new. They have pretty much doubled over the last 10 or 15 years; however, they do happen on a daily basis. Often consumers are not aware of that, but they are coming to our door every day. We are putting them into the system, monitoring them, and working with manufacturers to make sure that the appropriate actions are taken.

You'll see that the largest year for vehicle population was 2004—up around three million vehicles. The largest year for the number of recalls was 2008, with approximately 459. Keep in mind, not only do we look at motor vehicles, but we also look at child restraints and tires. So we also have data with respect to those pieces of equipment.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to present this information. We're more than happy to answer any questions you have today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Volpe, seven minutes.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the guests for appearing before us.

It bears repetition that the reason we're here is that we're trying to make sure that the product that Canadians buy and put on the road is safe and secure and that it's of a high quality. So when you come here before us to talk about the way you, as officials, interpret the legislation.... I'd like to ask you one very simple question: does the legislation give you enough tools to ensure that the product that's sold in Canada or assembled in Canada is safe for use, and does it comply with standards that we've come to expect in Canada and that we acknowledge in other countries? Just give a very simple yes or no.

[Gerard McDonald]

Yes, we feel it does, Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Great. Thanks.

You indicated that on January 21 you became aware of the Toyota problem associated with the pedal. Through all of your presentation you mentioned Toyota once and you made reference to the problems of Toyota recalls twice. You were I think given an indication that we were discussing specifically Toyota recalls. Are you satisfied that that pedal situation is sufficiently resolved to everybody's satisfaction, keeping in mind the consumer?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

At this time Toyota has met the intent of the law, notifying--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

No, no, I asked if you were satisfied.

[Trevor Lehouillier]

At this time, from the data we have, yes, I am. If I could explain--

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Oh, you are? Did you conduct the tests? It says here specialists. Are you the specialist?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

I'm the head of the department.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Okay, so you have special expertise to replicate a problem and to test the product in its original form and in its modified form. Is that it?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

Our defect investigators, combined with engineers, technologists, and people with extensive automotive experience....

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Did Toyota provide you with all the specs required to give you an indication that you were right on in all of your analyses?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

Toyota has given us everything that we've requested to date.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

You had to request it.

Have you been following what's going on in the United States?

[Trevor Lehouillier]

I definitely have. If I can explain something, if you'll give me a moment--