Transport Committee on Oct. 21st, 2010

[Doug Dobrowolski]

Again, I have pride in our municipalities in Manitoba, in their planning and their fiscal responsibility. I think they have allocated the funds. They realize the ones that are in trouble. If they know they are going to be tight, they are already doing it in that planning process to ensure the financial needs are there.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I would like to ask one more question and then yield the floor to my colleague Mr. Dhaliwal.

The Minister has sometimes suggested that things were going well in all provinces except Quebec, but I am increasingly realizing that this affects Canada as a whole. The province and the municipalities in Manitoba have their own decision-making process. As my colleague Mr. McCallum said, a six-month deadline would be desirable.

Do you have to comply with the many administrative formalities of the Canadian government? That factor alone would justify giving you extra time. It isn't just a question of costs; there is also the weather and the shortage of workers. There are also the heavy administrative demands you have suffered from.

[Doug Dobrowolski]

Again, municipalities have done their utmost to meet these deadlines. There have been adverse conditions this past summer. I guess when you have adverse conditions and things beyond your control, there are as well other costs that you cannot control. I think municipalities are doing their darndest to get this done. They know what the importance is to their communities. If they have to absorb a little bit of cost, whether it be administratively on their own as well, they're willing to do that because they know the importance that this infrastructure has to their--

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I agree with that. My question was this. You were a bit of a victim of the red tape. It's a huge machine at the federal level and sometimes it takes more time. You have to deal with the province and then you have to deal with your own people, so basically you were a bit of a victim of that administration.

[Doug Dobrowolski]

Again, as I mentioned earlier, it doesn't matter what program you put in, until these agreements are signed, until you know some certainty, yes, there are a lot of things you have to do to get to that point.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you.

Sukh.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Coderre.

I would like a short answer to this. How soon would you like to see the government make a decision to extend the deadline being that the “fair and reasonable” statement has been made? Do you want to wait until February or do you want to see it happening today?

[Doug Dobrowolski]

I think as soon as possible. Again, in Manitoba we've been working very well with Infrastructure Canada to monitor this all along, but it would be great to see it as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Monsieur Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Dobrowolski, you have been proactive and I congratulate you. You said earlier that it was going well in Manitoba, that everything was as it should be on the municipalities' side, that you have been proactive and you have told the municipalities they had to finish everything by October 31. However, I would like to know what your assessment of this program would be today if there had been bad weather in August and September.

[Doug Dobrowolski]

Again, the municipalities are doing their best to cope. We were fortunate in Manitoba that we have had the weather to complete; otherwise it would have been a story that was a lot different story from what I'm reporting today. That's why we're asking for the flexibility in a deadline. It's for things that are not in the control of the municipalities, things on the outside, through no fault of their own.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

That answers my question. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to our witnesses for appearing here today.

Let me first of all congratulate our municipal partners. For the last two years, I think they have done a considerable job in terms of their part in trying to make a stimulus a reality, to impact the economy in the window it needed to hit. I think that's the reason why we're not talking about problems across the board. It's certainly one of the variables in why we're not talking about across-the-board problems for municipalities with respect to these projects. We're having a high degree of success, so I want to congratulate our partners on that.

I also want to congratulate the associations for their part in reaffirming the importance of the deadline all the way along. Of course, that keeps a certain amount of drive moving forward to complete projects, so we appreciate that very much.

I do want to correct just one minor thing, if I may, Mr. Dobrowolski, with respect to the ISF and RInC projects. The primary focus isn't on dealing with the infrastructure deficit, but with stimulus and job creation as part of the recession that we've been in, and hitting that two-year timeframe in which to stimulate the economy. We happen to have the corollary benefit of addressing the infrastructure deficit.

We already had the BCF, a seven-year program to deal with long-term infrastructure deficit issues. That's why we introduced BCF and the permanent gas tax fund. I just wanted to be sure that we could be in agreement that the ISF and RInC projects were to deal with a global recession reality and Canada's part in getting jobs created in communities.

In terms of a background, just so I understand, how many municipalities are part of your association?

[Doug Dobrowolski]

All 198.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

One hundred and ninety-eight: how many did you survey in terms of coming up with your position here for committee today, if I may ask?

[Doug Dobrowolski]

Well, on a constant basis, we're in communication with ours daily. We surveyed all of ours that had the stimulus funding.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay. I appreciate that.

The federal government, I think can we can agree, has been, first of all, quick, or relatively quick if you look at the history of how the federal government moves on programs. We had the earliest budget in Canada's history, the economic action plan, in January 2008. It was, I think, a considerable all-of-government response because of the need to stimulate the economy.

I do want to correct Monsieur Gaudet. In terms of being fair and flexible, we've already announced, long ago, that substantially complete projects will get pro-rated federal funding--not cancel the projects.

We're also working to re-scope projects in order to deliver fully funded on-time projects with municipalities. You've talked about how less than 5% of the projects may come up short in some degree. Is re-scoping helping or can re-scoping help these individual projects in Manitoba, to the best of your knowledge?

[Doug Dobrowolski]

Yes, I think it can.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay.

We also, as a federal government, waived a number of approval processes: the Navigable Waters Protection Act, the need for a Canadian environmental assessment where there were provincial ones, etc. The provincial government has its own processes and approvals. Did they waive any of them in the stimulus period? If so, which ones?

I don't know if it's necessary in Manitoba like it is Ontario, but the provincial government has to sign off for approval of projects. How timely were the approvals of projects to get them going?

[Doug Dobrowolski]

The approvals were timely, but again, it's the provincial process that seemed to be where the delays were, and it's those necessary steps that you have to do, but they became barriers because of the time constraints and length of time. Like I said, these boards come back with their decisions with a looming deadline ahead of you.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Municipalities also have a role, obviously. They choose the projects to start with. They choose both the scope of the project and what they will undertake. They also, therefore, have the responsibility for the choice of projects. They also have their own approvals and processes.

In Windsor, for example, I know they have an ambitious project. In Windsor, Ontario, it's a retention treatment basin, and they've put in place a bylaw allowing them to do do construction 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They've waived noise bylaws, if you will, to ensure they could do construction around the clock.

Are there municipalities that you know of that have waived their own processes or taken their own steps to accelerate projects, and can you identify what some of those steps have been?

[Doug Dobrowolski]

I know municipalities have tried everything they can to streamline the processes that they have control of in order to get things done. We try to combine public hearings and we try to do everything to speed this process along. We keep reminding our municipalities to make sure they have their ducks in a row, whether it's engineering or consulting or whatever, so that they can keep moving forward and will not have to stop and gather information.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Everybody's had an opportunity to present. Are there any more questions?

Go ahead, Mr. Jean. We have about two minutes--