Evidence of meeting #28 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Dobrowolski, for your testimony here this morning.
I want to start by saying that I have a little bit of sympathy for the construction industry, having at one time worked in an engineering office to put myself through school. I was low man on the totem pole in the drafting office, but I gained some conversancy with the process of putting jobs out to tender. The honourable member from Markham may be interested to know that I inspected most of the sewers of the east side of Markham and did a lot of the survey work out there. So I have some conversancy with the town of Markham as well.
I have a couple of questions for you that I hope we can explore. First of all, what did you see as the primary objective of the stimulus package when the government brought it forward?
President, Association of Manitoba Municipalities
The primary objective, of course.... As municipalities, we've been before the federal government before this stimulus package or any of this and we've always been saying that our infrastructure is aging. So again, we're glad that the federal government has seen this as a priority and has dealt with it.
Again, when you invest in infrastructure, you're investing in your future. I think it's great for all communities, whether you're rural or urban. It makes your community more competitive. It makes your community much better when you have good infrastructure. I think the federal government has recognized that, and we're very appreciative of the programs it has put forward.
Conservative
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Do you think that a deadline, in the first place, was a good idea?
President, Association of Manitoba Municipalities
Well, with any program there's always uncertainty at first, because, again, you're negotiating agreements between provinces and you're negotiating agreements between all levels of government. Until those things are out of the way, of course there are those uncertainties, but you need to have a deadline. You can't simply let everything go on forever. It doesn't matter what program it is; there has to be an end somewhere. You have to draw a line in the sand where you're going to stop.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
When we said at the very beginning that it was timely, targeted, and temporary, everybody really bought into that, did they not?
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
When I start to look at where the projects are at.... I think you were saying to Mr. Bevington earlier that every municipality has a wish list of projects they really do want to undertake.
I know that in my own municipality there was a rather large project they had thought about putting forward for stimulus, but they knew that the engineering wasn't quite ready in order to get it done by the deadline. However, they had a number of other shovel-ready projects they could initiate, that their engineering departments had been working on, and in many cases applications were already in the works.
I recognize fully from my work that there are a significant number of agencies of government that you have to go through, but we did have the buy-in of our provincial governments on this to work together to see those things moved through much more quickly. That part of the package has worked really well, would you not agree?
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
We've seen municipalities, provinces, and the federal government really come together. As I said to one of our other witnesses the other day, I think what I have heard out of all of this is that taxpayers are seeing all levels of government work together.
So here's my question. I guess this is the biggest concern for me. When we're looking at the request for flexibility, at the request for the federal government to be fair and flexible on this, if these projects were already shovel-ready, meaning that much of the budgetary work had already been done, is there potential for any of these projects to be running over into other annual costs? Or are the budget allocations going to be finished with this budget year for the projects themselves?
President, Association of Manitoba Municipalities
Yes, the budget allocations are going to be finished, but as you mentioned, you have a wish list, and you do your estimates and you do your numbers to see if you can even afford these projects. Again, the help of any of these federal programs brings things to light. Then you have to shift your priorities, because you were at one time looking at this but all of a sudden there's a program, so you shift your priorities: now this becomes more important because there are funds available for it. I think it has been working well.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
But if they were shovel-ready programs...? If we came to the federal government and the provincial government, fundamentally for those projects much of the background work in engineering and application had already been done. We're looking now at the construction costs that are being allocated.
Again, I guess my question is this: will those costs stay within the 2010-11 fiscal year? Because obviously that's what the federal government has done. We have said that these moneys are available until fiscal year-end March 31, 2011. If we're talking about this deadline, are you going to allocate those funds into the fiscal year?
Joe Masi Executive Director, Association of Manitoba Municipalities
Mr. Chairman, may I make one comment?
Executive Director, Association of Manitoba Municipalities
I just have one comment. I think what our presentation is saying, though, is that for all the good work that's taken place, there are some very special and unique cases. We mentioned the Elma case, and there are a few others, through no fault of the municipalities. They had no control where there was weather.... We're asking for some consideration, because our fear is that some of these will be the ones that will be highlighted at the end as not being able to finish in time.
The Elma one is a very.... I'm sure the chairman has heard about it. It was a very tense legal battle with the community. The residents didn't want to get.... I mean, the municipality has had no control to meet that deadline.
So we're just asking for the four or whatever that we presented for some negotiation with Infrastructure Canada and the province.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm still finding it somewhat strange to be trying to assign the blame to the municipalities.
You've done your homework. I think we need to show some flexibility, period. It's a case-by-case issue, but I believe that because you've done your homework you deserve to have that flexibility.
I would like to ask a few questions.
We mentioned “fair and reasonable”.
If you get this extension, it is certainly going to have an impact on the next year. If you don't get it, it will interfere somewhat with your planning for the next year. How are you planning to deal with all this? We have the impression, for good reason, that you are currently in a grey area. If you don't get any news, that you should go ahead and do the work and the work is not completed, it's going to have repercussions for work in the following years.
As an association of municipalities, how to you plan to meet the needs of your people? I always thought that municipalities were the ones closest to the people, as compared to other governments. In some cases, Ottawa is remote. You might not just be using the shovel, you might be getting it used on you.
President, Association of Manitoba Municipalities
That's the case in any elected position: you find the wrath of the public. As you know, you never make the right decision.
