Transport Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2010

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

It's clearly identified in the proposed regulation that was distributed here at a meeting. Are you the one who would be engaged in making these proposed regulations?

[Kristina Namiesniowski]

Mr. Chairman, we would be the officials within the Government of Canada who would be working on the development of the regulations. I think what is being referred to is the proposed regulatory framework that was shared with the committee at the start of the deliberations around Bill C-42. I can read for you from the document. It talked about regulations concerning information required by foreign states.

There's a reference to the particular bill before the committee today. It talks about the information that would be made available to the U.S. government, and it talks about schedule 1, information about passengers and crew. Schedule 2 makes reference to information from the passenger name record, and says that it's the same as the above, and the “same as the above” is all the elements that the previous member read into the record: passenger name, date of birth, gender, redress number, passport number, passport country of issuance, passport expiration date, etc.

That's what the proposed regulatory framework stated.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well, if you pass on the passenger name record to a foreign state, would that foreign state have the availability of that information through other sources?

[Kristina Namiesniowski]

It's not a passenger name record per se, as is the case with advanced passenger information that is sent in relation to countries where aircraft land in countries of destination. What is being referred to here is the name, date of birth, and gender of the individual.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

That doesn't answer my question. My question was, would the United states, in possession of the passenger name record, have access to all the information in the passenger name record?

[Kristina Namiesniowski]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Have you followed the testimony presented to this committee in the past few hearings?

[Kristina Namiesniowski]

We have reviewed the testimony given by various experts who have appeared before the committee.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Did you follow the testimony given by the American airline data information expert at the last meeting?

[Kristina Namiesniowski]

I did not review the testimony from the last meeting.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So you're not really up to speed on this, then.

[Kristina Namiesniowski]

So I would not be able to answer the question because I'm not quite clear on what the member is getting at.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well, I—

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I might be able to, if I can read from this letter. I wish I could have had it translated more quickly. Nonethless, it says, “Secure Flight collects only the personal information necessary for effective watchlist matching: name, gender, birth date, and if available, a passport number to help ensure accuracy in our checking”.

My understanding is that if the airlines have the passport number, they do share it. If they don't, they don't share it. But it's not collected.

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I was just going to say, so in relation to—

Sorry. If Mr. Dhaliwal...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Go ahead.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

So obviously anybody who is flying to a foreign state is going to need a passport. I think that's now the regulation across the world, is it not? I believe so, if it's to a foreign state. So it's just those domestic flights that may be overflying the U.S.: passengers may not have a passport because they've used another form of ID.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

They're exempt.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Chair, it's even more confusing now.

You say that this is not the information they require. They mentioned the things they require: name, date of birth, and gender, along with passport information if it's available, right? On the other hand, the witnesses on the other side are not even sure what information will be transmitted through the regulation.

The amendment brought by Mr. Guimond makes sense--

It is Mr. Guimond, isn't it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

That's correct.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

It makes sense, because at least we've carved that information in stone. If it meets the requirement under American law, then we should put that into our own bill. That makes sense. It means that in future they're not asking for information that might not even be required; are the airlines transmitting the information that they have with them without consulting this law, which is carved in stone here?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Guimond.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Jean stated that a passport is required in all the other countries, and I would like to clarify that that is not true.

Perhaps you do not go South, for example, to the Dominican Republic. Perhaps you rather go to Dubai or such locales. The Dominican Republic does not require that you present a passport upon arrival. A simple ID card with a photo is sufficient. I am giving you the example of the Dominican Republic, but the same applies in other destinations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

For clarity, and using your example, Mr. Guimond, if you were flying to the Dominican Republic, you would not have to provide a passport and therefore that information would not be transferred to the Americans.

Mr. Jean.