Transport Committee on Dec. 7th, 2010

[Martin Eley]

I don't think I'm qualified to speak on the other airports. We don't have regulations that require the noise abatement procedures; it's up to policy.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I don't like to interrupt you, but what I'm asking is, you don't look to see what their rules and regulations are and compare them to see whether they're doing something that's better than what we're doing, or whether what we are doing is satisfactory—just to make that comparison?

[Martin Eley]

I think we have a lot of knowledge of what's going on—not necessarily me, but within the department. Anything we do by way of regulation, obviously we have to be able to justify. Generally speaking, I still believe the process we've had for some years in general works well. We haven't felt the need to take it to a higher standard across the board. That may come at some point.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

In my former life, I was mayor of a municipality, and we used to have what I call a bylaw of the senses, whether it was for sight lines or the smells or the noises. They are actually “sense-less” bylaws, in that they want less noise, less smell, and they don't want anything in the way of the sight lines.

Do you work with municipalities when they're going to develop an airport to help them with the planning? For instance, between agricultural operations and subdivisions we had a buffer of trees that was mandatory for the developer to put in, to get a break between the two conflicting land uses. Is there anything you have, or any influence you have on the municipalities as they develop the airports?

[Martin Eley]

I don't believe we have anything directly with the municipalities. We require the airports to consult, and they would normally involve all the stakeholders, which includes the municipalities. That might branch into what sort of mitigation measures you use. Whether it's an airport responsibility or a municipality responsibility, it's part of the discussion they have. It doesn't come directly from us.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

So you don't think it's important that there be some stipulation, as far as working with the partners at the airport and the municipal level is concerned, to ensure that everything is done to mitigate the noise that might come from the operation of an airport?

[Martin Eley]

That is part of that consultation. As I mentioned in the opening remarks the other day, each area is unique, depending on the airport, the locale, whether there is industry or there are residents, and that's why we believe it's best resolved by consultation at a local level. If we tried to establish rules, we would have a lot of trouble coming out with rules that fit every single circumstance.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Do the rules that are applied apply to the different types of aircraft and to the noise levels they would produce? We monitor and regulate emissions from automobiles, for instance, to protect people. Is there anything the department does, or does it have an enforcement ability with regard to aircraft with certain noise levels that couldn't use airports in Canada?

[Martin Eley]

We have very specific regulations. They adopt almost directly the ICAO standards. The requirements with respect to noise and emissions depend on the category of aircraft. All aircraft, when they're certified to operate in Canada, when they're introduced into service, need to have already shown us that they meet those levels. In fact, that is part of the certification activity. Either we do it directly or, if it's a foreign aircraft, the foreign authority does it. We make sure they meet those levels before they go into service.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

There are always challenges. I'm a member of Parliament from British Columbia and I land in Kelowna. Of course, it's in the Okanagan Valley, and the landing flight pattern has to go down the valley. It's a retirement area, and you're going through a residential area all the time. It's really difficult to build airports around residential use and places where people are going to be. Is that not correct?

[Martin Eley]

Yes. And again, there are always competing requirements. As you get into more remote areas, the lifeline becomes more important than the noise. So each particular situation is very specific, which is why we feel that those things have to be resolved at a local level.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

And would the airport authority set the time restrictions for the use of the airport, or would they be influenced by the municipality?

[Martin Eley]

It would depend on the consultation, and particularly on which airport we're talking about, as to what would be appropriate for the area. Some more remote airports do not necessarily have time limits; airports in built-up areas typically do, because of the high density of housing close to the airport.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Eley.

I would like ask you, Mr. Eley, do you have the answers for those questions that were given to you last week?

[Martin Eley]

We prepared the responses to all of the questions. They are in the approval process, and we expect they will be submitted to the committee fairly soon. We do not have them with us tonight.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you.

On another note, Mr. Eley, I'm going to go to the health question first. I am very thankful that the honourable colleague and friend of mine, Madam Jennings, not only worked for the people of Quebec, but in fact she was in my riding in British Columbia helping the people in British Columbia to deal with noise factors.

The issue that came up is—we have a health issue—that modern studies have found that there are acute health impacts from aircraft noise. And contrary to what the Bloc said, it is Madam Jennings' and my understanding that Health Canada is only involved at the beginning, when the infrastructure is put in, and is not consulted at all in the process afterwards.

Why wouldn't you do that, when all studies show that there are health risks with the noise?

[Martin Eley]

I have two comments to make there.

There are a lot of studies. There are certainly studies that show there are health impacts; there are other studies that show there are not. From our perspective, the evidence is not conclusive. There are many studies, some that are convincing, others that are not.

In terms of Health Canada, any time there's a review of noise abatement procedures that are submitted to our national committee for approval, Health Canada is consulted on those changes and procedures and they look very specifically at the exposure levels of noise to see if there's an impact on health. They are involved in individual cases when they come through for change.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

But when Nav Canada changes its flight paths, that affects the communities. Are they still being notified of the risk?

[Martin Eley]

I haven't quite got the question.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

When Nav Canada changes the flight paths, is Health Canada part of that consultation process?

[Martin Eley]

The same process does not exist beyond the airports. The process we've been talking about extends 10 miles from an airport and it's part of the operation of the airport.

Nav Canada is certainly part of the consultation process at the airport. Beyond the airports, in terms of the air lanes more generally, there are no specific requirements for them to consult with respect to noise.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

What regulations control noise abatement outside that 10 nautical mile zone, then?

[Martin Eley]

We still have the noise requirements for the aircraft. They apply to the aircraft all the time, making sure the aircraft are within certain noise levels. That's the general protection.

The biggest issues, clearly, are at the airports when the aircraft are taking off and landing.