Transport Committee on March 27th, 2012

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Oh, so this is a lateral transfer? It's not a cut?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

Parts of it. I'll give you the numbers. Every group in the department that has IT activities we sent to Shared Services Canada. It got transferred.

So with road safety, for example, this is the majority of the amount. Regarding rail, there was some economic action plan money there. That ended, so that came off the numbers. That's the drop you're seeing.

Regarding aviation safety, it's $16.8 million. You rounded it up to $17 million.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Rounded up. Yes.

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

On operating, it's an $8 million reduction. Close to $2 million went to Shared Services Canada with the IT resources, and $4.1 million was as a result of administrative system streamlining. Basically we're trying to do our jobs better by organizing that.

In terms of capital, they have an increase for King Air. The $12 million decrease in the Gs and Cs is because we have this program called the airport capital assistance program. We couldn't get the approval for that on time; we were late, so this one is being deferred to future years.

On Marine, $3.1 million is transferred within the department. Marine does assessments in terms of navigable waters. We moved that money to the programs area because we were trying to put everybody who works on similar projects on one team so we would get efficiencies. Again, they had close to $1 million go to Shared Services Canada. Some programs sunsetted in the Marine area, so that was tapering down.

That would be the explanation.

I gave you the details because you asked what was in the numbers, but in terms of our priority in the department, safety and security is the critical key function of our department. Any time there's any flexibility, we put the money into safety, because it's a critical function. I wouldn't say these are cuts to the programs.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

How about VIA Rail?

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

I have to stop there; we're at our time limit.

Do you have a brief answer?

[Anita Biguzs, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Transport]

On the VIA Rail issue, the reduction in the main estimates reflects the fact that many of VIA's large capital projects are winding down. In the budgets of 2007 and 2009, about $923 million was allocated to VIA for a whole bunch of major capital projects. They've accomplished much of what they set out to do; a lot was completed in 2011. They still have over $140 million for further work. It reflects where they are in the process—in the completion of capital projects.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all of you for being here.

Over the last few years there has been an unprecedented level of federal investment in infrastructure. We are working with our partners in provincial governments and municipal governments and elsewhere. There are all kinds of programs under the economic action plan that invested in infrastructure. In last year's budget we made the gas tax fund a permanent fund so that the municipalities could plan over the long term and rely on sustainable and predictable funding. There is also the Building Canada fund, which is a seven-year fund.

I can think of a number of projects in my riding alone. In Airdrie, in my community where I live, there was some upgrading done to Veterans Boulevard. It was a contribution from our government of just under $2.7 million. In Cochrane, another community in my riding, there was a $3-million federal contribution and some work on Centre Avenue. In Sundre, also in my riding, there was a contribution of $3 million to the east side wastewater and water servicing. I could go on and on; there are several other examples from my riding alone.

All across the country we saw unprecedented levels of investment in infrastructure. I know that the minister has been looking at how to proceed when the Building Canada fund finishes, looking at how we can continue to work with our partners and ensure that there is future involvement in infrastructure investment. Can you give us an update on the status of that long-term planning of public infrastructure?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

In last year's budget the government announced that we will be doing a consultation process and a long-term planned development process for the future of infrastructure. This was three years ahead of the sunsetting of all the programs in 2014. This gives us the opportunity to work with all our partners to determine the future needs of the country and what can be done to meet them.

The consultation is in three stages. Phase one looks at what have we done—“we” means the municipalities, the provinces, and the federal government. It's what has been achieved. Phase two asks where we go from here: what the future will look like. Phase three is detailed programming directed at how to do the things that need to be done, and how to pay for these things. One of the honourable members was talking about the infrastructure needs of the country, which is great. Planning and having discussions on what the priorities should be and where to put the money is the subject matter.

Minister Lebel will be dedicating quite a lot of his time in the summer to talking to our stakeholders on this issue, and our officials are working very hard. If you talk to any of our stakeholders, municipalities, they will say that this partnership is effective in trying to figure out where we go from here.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Excellent. It sounds as if it's well in hand, and it sounds as if we're continuing to work with our partners in the other levels of government. That's great news.

In respect of the rail service review in my province, Jim Dinning has been appointed arbiter. He's working with the stakeholders and with the rail companies. Could give us an update on that process?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

Following the reporting of the rail service review panel, the minister asked Mr. Dinning to facilitate this process. He has been meeting with the shippers as well as the railways. This is an area where there are usually different.... It's a relatively contentious area. I would say Mr. Dinning is doing very well bringing parties to the table. We're looking forward to his report to the minister, I think later in the spring. After that the government is on record that we will be introducing legislation on this subject.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Sullivan.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Chow asked about aviation safety, and you broke it down for us and said that $8 million of the budget was an operations cut. Is that inspectors? It's about 80 jobs. How are we going to continue to inspect the airline fleets and the rest if $8 million is gone from the operations side of Transport Canada's aviation safety?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

Thank you, sir, for the question.

I also clarified that $1.9 million of the $8 million went to Shared Services Canada, the IT resources--

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Okay, that wasn't clear.

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

--and $4.1 million went to streamlining administrative functions. My notes say that $1.1 million is in miscellaneous changes.

Maybe the assistant deputy minister responsible can elaborate further, if you wish.

[Gerard McDonald, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport]

Yes, it's largely related to the administrative efficiencies. In Transport Canada we centralize our accounts payable system. What came from the aviation safety area has now gone into the finance area of the organization, as well as some internal administrative changes that account for the rest of those savings. So none of the reduction in the operating budget that's shown in the main estimates affects our civil aviation oversight program, and we have not decreased in any way our oversight of the civil aviation area.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Okay. With the collapse of Aveos, how will the department now be able to continue its oversight when it's no longer Winnipeg and Montreal where the overhauls are going to take place, they're going to take place someplace else? Do you have inspectors who are on the ground in El Salvador or in Memphis, Tennessee, and wherever else? How is that going to happen, now that we can no longer do it in Canada? How are we going to impose our laws and safety standards in other countries?

[Gerard McDonald]

When we investigate or oversee an aviation operator, they have to demonstrate to us that whatever maintenance schedule they have for their aircraft respects Canadian laws and we assure ourselves that they do so. So they will submit to us a plan for the maintenance, both the line maintenance and the heavy maintenance for their aircraft. That's something we will review in detail and ensure that it's entirely safe before approving it.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

But there have been a number of aircraft incidents in the past where merely accepting an airline's statement that this is what they were going to do resulted in a crash. There was a lack of inspectors, in fact, in a number of incidents in the past that caused.... For example, the Alaska Airlines 261 crash was blamed on the fact that the Federal Aviation Administration in the U.S. had budget cuts and didn't have as many inspectors as they should have had. They trusted the airlines when the airlines said they were doing things. It turns out they weren't.

Canadians are concerned that when the maintenance of a fleet as big as Air Canada disappears to some other shore, we won't be as safe, we will not be in a position to ensure ourselves or to trust that this is going to be maintained to the same wonderful standard that was maintained first by Air Canada, which has a tremendous record, and then by Aveos for the last year or so that Aveos has been in charge. Now it's gone offshore, and Canadians are worried.

[Gerard McDonald]

I guess all I can say to that is that no matter who is providing the maintenance on whichever aircraft company, our level of oversight does not diminish in any way. Our oversight of the aviation service providers will continue in the same manner it always has, and we will insist upon the strictest adherence to our regulatory framework.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

On the rail side, the minister himself said that they were strengthening Canada's rail transport system to meet Canada's needs. But we've not yet got an answer about the rail system in the Gaspé or on Vancouver Island. The fact is that both those rail systems have now collapsed as far as passenger rail goes, and whatever freight might have gone on those lines.

Can somebody on the minister's staff tell us what the plan is for those?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

You have the departmental officials, so we'll be happy to answer.

In terms of Gaspé as well as Vancouver, VIA has shut down the service because of safety concerns and the state of the track. We have received requests for funding from Vancouver, but we haven't from Gaspé. The province asked for a study to be done in Vancouver, and I think that's in progress right now. So that's the status of those particular projects.

At the same time, I mentioned the issue around the long-term infrastructure plan. I appreciate that it is further down the line in 2014 that new programs will come into place. But that being said, we have to make choices as to where to invest the money. Things like this in terms of the rail infrastructure will come up as part of the consultations and as part of the long-term plan development.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

You have the floor, Mr. Poilievre.