Evidence of meeting #30 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aveos.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Calin Rovinescu  President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada
Louise-Hélène Sénécal  Assistant General Counsel, Law Branch, Air Canada
Duncan Dee  Senior Vice-President, Corporate Affairs, Air Canada
Kristine Burr  Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Department of Transport
Pierre Legault  Assistant Deputy Minister, Business and Regulatory Law Portfolio, Department of Justice

8:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, meeting number 30. The orders of the day, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), are a study on the closure of Aveos Fleet Performance Inc.

Joining us today for the first hour from Air Canada we have Calin Rovinescu, president and chief executive officer; Louise-Hélène Sénécal, assistant general counsel; and Joseph Galimberti, director of government relations.

I will advise the committee that Mr. Rovinescu has to be out of here at 9:30, so you will want to keep your questions pertinent and to the point. I will be changing witnesses at the end of the first hour.

With that, I'll welcome you. I know you have a brief presentation. Then we'll move immediately to questions. Thank you for joining us.

8:30 a.m.

Calin Rovinescu President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I am pleased to speak with you today on the topic of Aveos Fleet Performance and its arrangements with Air Canada and provide some evidence to help with your deliberations.

I am joined today by my colleagues—Louise-Hélène Sénécal, Assistant General Counsel, Duncan Dee, Executive Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer and Joseph Galimberti.

As the committee is certainly very aware, on March 19 Aveos Fleet Performance Inc., a separate and independently owned and managed supplier to Air Canada, filed for insolvency protection under the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act. Aveos management subsequently chose to permanently cease operations outright rather than accept an offer of emergency financing extended by Air Canada which would have stabilized the Aveos operations to the benefit of its customers, stakeholders and employees and allowed for an orderly restructuring. As an important customer of Aveos, we consider the manner in which the Aveos management and board closed all of Aveos' operations in Canada to have been irresponsible when other options were available. But before expanding on where we are today, a short discussion of how Aveos and Air Canada's relationship came to be is in order.

Eight years ago, in 2004 that is, as part of a court approved restructuring, Air Canada became a wholly owned subsidiary of ACE Aviation Holdings as several of the former Air Canada constituent parts were reorganized as separate business units. This reorganization, mandated by investors who financed the restructuring and approved by the more than $8 billion of creditors' claims, was supported by the affected labour groups and employees who ratified the new arrangements through a very public court process.

Certain assets and employees of the former Air Canada Technical Services Division were thus transferred to a new company, while Air Canada itself retained substantial maintenance capability and work. Today Air Canada directly employs 2,400 maintenance employees. In 2007, ACE Aviation Holdings Inc. sold ACTS to a group of investors which included some very well-known private equity firms and leading financial institutions, who committed to maintaining jobs in Canada while growing the overall scope of the business and becoming a larger, stronger entity. In 2008, the company changed its name to Aveos Fleet Performance Inc. This group of investors invested more than $975 million in Aveos.

Air Canada has a long record of support for Aveos. We had signed long-term maintenance contracts at advantageous terms to Aveos which should have provided Aveos with financial stability. We participated in the 2010 out-of-court Aveos restructuring through a $22 million term note that allowed Aveos to defer payments without interest penalty. We committed up to $50 million over three years to further assist Aveos as part of the 2010 restructuring. In 2011 alone, our payments to Aveos for work completed were $440 million.

We offered on several occasions over the last weeks financing support to permit an orderly restructuring and continuance of operations, including the $15 million in emergency funding that I referred to earlier. While the final amount of our bankruptcy claim has not yet been calculated, a high level estimate of the net amounts owing by Aveos to Air Canada to date is well in excess of $35 million. So we have certainly tried to help this company financially. More meaningfully, however, Air Canada supported Aveos by faithfully sending our maintenance business to them.

Since the beginning of 2011, Air Canada has undertaken 135 airframe checks and Aveos performed 123, or 91% of them.

In addition, Aveos performed 52 of 56, or 93%, of engine checks performed for Air Canada over that time frame. Work was sent to third parties only when Aveos was unable to perform it and in accordance with the terms of the commercial agreements between the parties and applicable collective agreements.

Despite this support from Air Canada, Aveos had repeatedly failed to attract new third-party business to its facilities and diversify its revenue stream. By their own admission in court filings, the company had never become cost-competitive and had suffered operating losses for several years. They admit to having had too high a cost structure and not being sufficiently competitive from a productivity viewpoint. Ultimately, their unfortunate decision to terminate operations is symptomatic of those failures and not the result of any action taken or not taken by Air Canada.

Aveos's unexpected closure of their facilities has forced Air Canada to act quickly and to put in place contingency arrangements to ensure that our customers, of whom there are about 100,000 per day, are not inconvenienced and that our airplanes continue with their regularly scheduled maintenance so they can continue flying. Our contingency arrangements are being driven solely by safety and regulatory compliance, and we will select maintenance, repair, and overhaul suppliers to perform scheduled maintenance on this basis. Safety will not be compromised for political or any other expediencies.

On a transitional basis, consistent with the high standards of our maintenance program, we have identified qualified and government-approved maintenance facilities in Canada and the U.S. to undertake work that was scheduled to be performed by Aveos. For example, seven aircraft scheduled for maintenance have already been sent to two Quebec-based maintenance providers currently used by other Canadian and international airlines, and there are a few other MROs—maintenance, repair, and overhaul providers—in Canada that have capacity, capability, and licences to do some of the work that we require. We will also look to suppliers outside Canada, given capacity and expertise constraints in Canada.

Finally, contrary to some irresponsible statements made by others in the media, I would like to categorically state that we have not sent and we will not send any work to Aeroman, the San Salvador-based sister company of Aveos, under any circumstance.

On a longer-term basis, Air Canada is encouraging MRO companies from across Canada and around the world to conduct due diligence and assess whether any of the former Aveos operations may be viable in Canada under new ownership. We have further publicly indicated that we have a strong preference for working with a global MRO provider or manufacturer that has an interest and an ability to provide component, repair, and overhaul services in Canada, with particular emphasis given to Montreal, Winnipeg, Vancouver, and Toronto. Air Canada knows that a pool of well-trained, qualified, and talented people exists and is available in those cities and will favour MROs or manufacturers with globally competitive cost structures that have established or will establish some portion of their operation in one or more of these cities, employing the skills of Canadian aviation technicians.

Governments can get involved through their economic development branches by encouraging these companies to set up or expand operations in Canada or assist them in setting up cutting-edge engine repair lines for new generations of engines, as an example.

Air Canada is willing and expects to work collaboratively with governments and these potential suppliers toward viable, long-term, cost-competitive, and productivity-competitive arrangements. To this end, since the Aveos filing we have been in close contact with the office of the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, as well as with provincial and municipal officials. In fact, I met personally with Minister Lebel yesterday afternoon to review this file.

As regards specific questions relating to the Air Canada Public Participation Act, let me state clearly and unequivocally that we continue to be in full compliance with the letter and the spirit of the act, despite the demise of Aveos.

On December 1, 2010, this very committee heard from officials from the Department of Transport that in their view Air Canada was then compliant with all aspects of the law.

In May 2011, less than one year ago, Mr. Justice Newbould of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice ruled on the issue of whether we were in compliance with the maintenance facility requirements of the act following an application filed by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, IAMAW, the union that represents these workers. The court found that Air Canada did meet the act's requirements on the basis of our own overhaul and maintenance functions.

I quote from the conclusions of the Honourable Mr. Justice Newbould:

In summary I find that Air Canada does maintain operational and overhaul centres in those cities...by itself maintaining certain overhaul functions through its line maintenance operations.

Air Canada, irrespective of Aveos, continues to employ 2,400 maintenance employees at various bases in Canada, including those in Winnipeg, Toronto, and Montreal. This, incidentally, is 35% higher than it was in 2007. We are satisfied that the current circumstances do not change the court's finding.

Air Canada, on a going-forward basis, is committed to remaining fully compliant with the act, as long as the act is in force. More importantly, we are also fully committed to encouraging Canadian aviation workers, and we look forward to working with industry players to develop solutions.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to present today. I will now take questions that committee members may have.

8:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Thank you very much.

Mr. Nicholls, you have seven minutes.

March 29th, 2012 / 8:40 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Mr. Rovinescu, clearly, when you have a great deal of money, it is easy to hide behind an army of lawyers from large legal firms to circumvent the spirit of the law in order to preserve the bonuses of Aveos' senior management.

At least the former president of Air Canada was honest enough to recognize that these maintenance facilities were important for the cities of Montreal, Winnipeg and Mississauga. They performed not only day-to-day maintenance but also general overhauls. Both aspects are important.

When testifying before the parliamentary committee in 1988, the president of Air Canada acknowledged that, according to the act, it was important to maintain a major maintenance and overhaul facility in Winnipeg. He also added that the increasing demand for maintenance and overhaul would guarantee that much of the work would continue to be done in Winnipeg. Major maintenance and overhaul work is required on every aircraft after a certain number of hours of flight time and therefore it was important that the airport have at least one hangar in Winnipeg and that there be others in Montreal and Toronto.

How do you intend to comply with the obligations set out in the Air Canada Public Participation Act to maintain these maintenance and overhaul facilities in Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg?

8:45 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

Thank you for your question.,

As I just explained, this issue was fully dealt with in the Ontario Court last year. Do not forget, sir, that Air Canada has 2,400 maintenance employees who continue working at Air Canada. These employees are working in all of the cities, including Winnipeg. In fact, we will have an opportunity to hire more people to work in Winnipeg. Our activities are in compliance with both the spirit and the letter of the act.

We also need to look at the way aircraft maintenance has evolved since 1988. The various maintenance procedures have actually evolved over time. The court studied the matter in depth last year. It was an independent court. Following a lengthy process, the court concluded that Air Canada was complying with the act.

8:45 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

In 1988, the president said that he felt that the definition of an overhaul facility was quite specific. He said that it was a facility where major structural work was done on aircraft, requiring a certain level of expertise. That means that we are talking about major overhauls, not just changing an aircraft's oil.

Does Air Canada now believe that it can interpret the act differently because it has an army of lawyers behind the scenes telling it how to circumvent the spirit of the act that was passed in 1988? I checked the Library of Parliament archives for Air Canada's position in 1988 and for that of the deputy minister responsible for the privatization of Air Canada. It was clear: the company must be able to provide major overhaul services in those three cities.

Where does Air Canada intend to have major overhaul work done in the future?

8:45 a.m.

Louise-Hélène Sénécal Assistant General Counsel, Law Branch, Air Canada

Mr. Chair, I would invite the members to read the ruling made by Justice Newbould of the Superior Court of Ontario, who provides a detailed analysis...

8:45 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

That is fine, we have read it.

We can turn to...

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Mr. Poilievre on a point of order.

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Mr. Nicholls asked a question. He was getting a very pertinent answer.

8:45 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

I've already received the answer.

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Well, you asked the question again, so obviously you need to hear it a second time.

8:45 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

The parliamentary secretary knows that time is limited, so I pass my time on to—

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

Order, please.

It's not a point of order.

You have used up four minutes and 26 seconds, so you have two and a half minutes to finish questioning.

8:45 a.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Privatizing Air Canada's maintenance facilities is the first step in the eventual transfer of these jobs abroad.

I would like to understand Air Canada's obligations with respect to the lack of funds in the Air Canada employee pension plan, because most of the Aveos employee pension money is still in Air Canada's pension plan.

What impact will the closure of Aveos have on the employees' pension plan?

In addition, Air Canada stopped awarding contracts to Aveos, resulting in its closure. Does Air Canada intend to fulfill its responsibilities to its former employees?

8:45 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

Thank you very much, Ms. Morin.

When Aveos was sold, Air Canada did in fact keep certain responsibilities. Moreover, about a year and a half ago, when this issue was before the Canadian Labour Relations Board, Air Canada first made a commitment to cover up to 1,500 premiums for people who would be losing their jobs. Our lawyers are discussing the matter with representatives from Aveos and the court, and so on.

As for our pension fund obligations, Air Canada did indeed have certain obligations and it intends to comply with all of its obligations to these people. This is a process that will take some time. Like everyone else, we were surprised by the way in which Aveos chose to restructure itself or shut its doors. This is currently being discussed. I do not know whether or not Ms. Sénécal has anything to add.

8:50 a.m.

Assistant General Counsel, Law Branch, Air Canada

Louise-Hélène Sénécal

The Aveos restructuring process involves various stakeholders: there is a controller and an Aveos representative. So we need to...

8:50 a.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

That is fine, but my time is limited.

You said that 1,500 individuals may be entitled to it, but more than 1,500 people have lost their jobs.

What are you going to say to the half that have lost their jobs? That they are going to get their pension? And what about the other half, will you tell them that they will not get their retirement pension?

8:50 a.m.

Assistant General Counsel, Law Branch, Air Canada

Louise-Hélène Sénécal

Mr. Chair, there seems to be a bit of confusion when we talk about these 1,500 employees. We are talking about two different things. As far as the pension fund is concerned, we have contractual obligations and we will comply with those contractual obligations to that pension fund. That is one thing.

As for the 1,500, this number...

8:50 a.m.

NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Fine.

I will go to my...

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed

I have to interrupt there. I'm sorry, but your time is up.

Monsieur Coderre.

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be sharing my time with Mr. Lamoureux.

Mr. Rovinescu, we do not need lawyers, we are going to talk to each other as one Montrealer to another. Let's understand each other today.

Did you think that Aveos did good work? You did after all give it 93% of the contracts. Was the work done well?

8:50 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

Yes, this was a provider that did adequate work.

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

So there were never any safety issues; there were no problems.