Evidence of meeting #6 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tim Shearman  President, Canadian Automobile Association
Jeff Walker  Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Automobile Association
Paul Moist  National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Toby Sanger  Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

5:05 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

We're doing our pre-budget submission tomorrow at the House of Commons finance committee, and our proposal has a number of fair tax reform initiatives. One of those is closing the stock option loophole whereby people such as Warren Buffett or others pay half the rate of tax on their capital income and their stock option income that normal workers pay on their employment income. That would raise approximately $1 billion for the federal government. That's one source of income.

There's been a lot of discussion about corporate income tax cuts, which haven't been particularly effective in terms of increasing the rate of investment. In fact, corporations are holding half a trillion dollars in excess cash that they're not investing in the economy.

We've also proposed higher taxes on the financial industry, because it's currently undertaxed in comparison with the rest of the economy. So we're proposing fair tax reform measures, and billions could be raised through those. We probably wouldn't propose doing that immediately, but certainly some of those could be introduced after a number of years.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

I wasn't aware that Warren Buffett paid taxes in Canada, but in any event....

5:10 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

No, I'm just using that as an example.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Yes, I hear what you're saying.

Do corporations pay income tax?

5:10 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

Sure. Corporations file income tax returns.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

And where does that money come from?

5:10 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

It generally comes from their profits, I believe.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Really? Okay.

Do trade unions pay taxes?

5:10 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

Unions are non-profit organizations.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

You're aware that a non-profit organization is just a legal entity. A non-profit is allowed to make a profit, and most of them do. Should those profits be taxed?

5:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Paul Moist

What does this have to do with public transit?

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

You're talking about taxing to pay for public expenditure, and I'd like to know where this money is going to come from.

5:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Paul Moist

We're joining with Canada's mayors and councillors and the Canadian Urban Transit Association.

A public transit system for Canada, with national leadership, is a viable public issue. Building public transit will actually mean savings in the long term. If we're going to get into a debate about how one pays for that.... How governments spend money here and elsewhere is open for debate. There are Canadians clamouring for more investment in public transit. What that has to do with this line of questioning, I don't know.

5:10 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

I would just add that a lot of the testimony you've heard is about the cost to the economy of having inadequate public transit. The federal government itself did a study showing that a conservative estimate of the cost of congestion was close to $4 billion a year. If people have more time to work, then that's going to grow the economy and make it more productive.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

We could pick this up tomorrow at the finance committee.

I have a couple of other questions.

Mr. Moist, have you been to Hong Kong?

5:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Paul Moist

I have.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

And you stand by the statement that 90% of the people in Hong Kong use public transit? Only 10% of the people drive cars?

5:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Paul Moist

The ownership of registered private vehicles is by less than 10% of the population of Hong Kong. The private ownership--

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Where did you get that information?

5:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Paul Moist

I'm pretty comfortable with that information.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Could you present that evidence to the committee?

5:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Paul Moist

Sure, we'll send it through the chair—

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

You can send it to the chair and he can distribute it to us.

5:10 p.m.

National President, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Paul Moist

Absolutely.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

How did you arrive here today?