Transport Committee on March 19th, 2013

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

So what was anticipated to have been spent at one point wasn't, and now that reflects the increase in the current window; something has been....

[Louis Lévesque]

It's been rearranged, what we call our program activity architecture in that area—

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

What is the department currently funding with respect to transportation innovation?

[Louis Lévesque]

There are a number of initiatives—for example, on motor vehicle efficiency, fuel efficiency—and there's also funding for departmental operations in terms of analysis and research.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you, Mr. Watson. Your time has expired.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Aubin, five minutes.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to split my time with Ms. Morin.

Minister, welcome to the committee and thank you for joining us. Since we don't have a lot of time and because I'd like to leave some time for Ms. Morin, I must challenge you to answer both of my questions in three minutes.

My first question has to do with the funding of infrastructure programs. Clearly, some wonderful projects were not funded because the money had run out, because it had either been spent or been committed elsewhere, as you explained numerous times.

Are you at all able to take money that has been committed but not spent—say because a project was not completed—and reinvest that amount in infrastructure, rather than handing it over to the Treasury? That is my first question.

Now for my second question. I repeatedly heard you mention your concern as far as respecting taxpayers' capacity to pay. The question I have with respect to the Champlain Bridge, but other projects as well, is this. To my mind, the Government of Canada probably has the best borrowing leverage out there. So how do you explain that a PPP will do a better job of serving taxpayers or respecting their capacity to pay than a publicly funded scheme?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Like you, I am currently watching a lot of television in Quebec. Some topics of interest make us think about how projects should be managed.

That being said, we think that the capacity of taxpayers should always be respected. That will also apply to our business plan for the new bridge that will cross the St. Lawrence. We will see what the outcome will be. It is clear that we have to provide taxpayers with the highest possible value in return for the invested amounts. We announced the construction of the bridge with that in mind. We are talking about an investment of almost $5 billion. A toll is collected on the Detroit bridge, and the same will be the case in Montreal. As for traffic management in the greater Montreal area, the people who manage the Montreal region will eventually present us with some solutions, along with Quebec.

Regarding the infrastructure program, I call tell you that the provinces make sure that the envelopes allocated to them are fully invested. You can rest assured that, if a project does not proceed, the province will submit another project to ensure that their envelope is fully spent.

In Quebec—which I am using as an example because you and I both live there—some money remained in two envelopes out of the seven components of the Building Canada Fund. We are talking about major projects—over $15 million—and big cities of over 100,000 people. Projects submitted by municipalities that were not accepted and prioritized by Quebec—before we can have a say, Quebec must prioritize them—were resubmitted in other areas. Cost overruns are not covered. I am sure that, by the end of the fiscal year—March 31, 2014—all the money allocated to Quebec and other provinces will have been fully invested. The money stays in infrastructure programs.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I want to come back to the Champlain Bridge, since it's a big issue in Montreal.

You are saying that the money allocated to Ottawa and Vancouver was part of provincial envelopes. However, since 2011, you have been passing various pieces of legislation in order to impose crippling costs on the provinces.

Quebec asked for your help with public transit on the Champlain Bridge because the province is currently unable to meet those costs. You began your presentation by saying that the economy was a priority for you. However, we know how much vehicular traffic costs daily in Montreal. I don't understand how intelligent people can tell us that their priority is the economy, but that they will not invest to resolve an issue that is costing us dearly. I think that is a lack of vision that affects the city of Montreal and Canada as a whole. How can you not consider this to be an investment?

As for my second question, I have not seen anything in the budget that will remedy the issue of vehicular traffic while the construction is ongoing. The traffic problem affects not only the section between Longueuil and Montreal, but also the west and the east. I receive calls from my constituents about this every day. Some of them tell me that it can take them two hours to reach downtown, which is only 12 kilometres away. Walking there would be faster. That makes no sense.

Could you tell me what you plan to do about the vehicular traffic issue as a whole? Currently, the budget does not address that concern.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I want to begin by reminding you that the provinces have exclusive jurisdiction over the whole network. The federal government owns only two and a half bridges in Montreal. We own the Jacques-Cartier Bridge, the Champlain Bridge and 50% of the Mercier Bridge. That's the extent of our responsibility. The Champlain Bridge will continue to be used during the construction of the new bridge that will span the St. Lawrence River. We have invested $380 million in its maintenance, and we will continue to ensure that it is safe and that it will remain open whenever needed. However, I am not the engineer in charge of managing the project. We have done everything that was required and we will keep that up.

That being said, I joined the department in May 2011, and a $3-million to $5-million project was announced 140 days later. I think that confirms our ability to have a vision and establish priorities. Some people talked for years and complained. I am referring to a party that complained but did nothing to change the situation. We have moved things forward and taken action. One of the accomplishments in my time with the Department of Transport I am proud of is the fact that it took us 140 days to develop this project.

Obviously, the bridge has not yet been built. That will take 10 years. Nevertheless, it's important to remember what our jurisdiction is in this matter and to respect the taxpayers' capacity to pay. For instance, the Confederation Bridge was paid through a public-private partnership, and a toll system was installed. The same goes for the bridge between Detroit and Windsor. That's pretty special because those are the only two bridges in one province. This should always be kept in mind when the overall balance across Canada is being considered.

As for public transit, when we announced the construction of the new bridge, we asked what kind of public transit would be prioritized. That's how things are done. Envelopes are allocated to each province. In Quebec, the previous government decided to invest that money in highways. The amount of about $700 million that was put into Highway 30 could have been used for public transit, but the province made its decision. The Highway 85 project—and I would like to take this opportunity to say hello to Minister Claude Béchard, who made the announcement with me, but is no longer with us—was another very important part of my political life. About $280 million was spent on the highway that connects the Lower St. Lawrence region to New Brunswick.

You can't choose twice. You can't have your cake and eat it too. When a program is on the table, the province must choose. You can't tell us that the situation is different because Quebec is involved and that we should pay for public transit, while other provinces make that decision based on the funding we allocate to them. If Quebec decides to prioritize public transit—be it on the new bridge that will span the St. Lawrence or elsewhere in the province—to remedy the traffic issue you talked about, we will be there to listen. Our decision will be based on the quality of the request. However, for the time being, we are still waiting for Quebec's answer regarding the type of public transit they are prioritizing. We have been waiting for that answer for 530 days. They are saying that we cannot tell them exactly how much money we will invest in the bridge, but before we can set the amounts, we have to know how much it will cost. We are analyzing toll systems, and we are serious about our work. We want to build a bridge and not use the bridge to do politics.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Minister, I understand you have to leave. We're at that time.

I had Mr. Adler, Mr. Holder, and Mr. Toet on the list, but I know you have an engagement you have to get to.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes. I can tell you what it is.

I can talk about it. I am expected at the residence of the Governor General of Canada. I apologize for that. It's the swearing-in ceremony for the new department I have been put in charge of, and it's starting soon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Congratulations on your new role.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Mr. Chair, while we have the minister here, both ministers, can I offer congratulations to him on behalf of all of us on his new, additional role as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs?

We wish you every success in that role. Thank you for taking on that opportunity, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Well said, Mr. Holder.

With that, Mr. Minister, thank you very much for being here.

We'll suspend for one minute.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

We will resume.

We have a little business I would like to deal with.

One is a budget—witnesses on the committee. Does everyone have a copy of this? It's for a total of $8,900. Unless there are questions, I would entertain a motion to approve it.

Go ahead, Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I move that the chair pays for it out of pocket—no, no, I'm kidding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

All in favour?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Thank you.

My apologies. We have a number of new witnesses. Welcome, and thank you for being here.

Can we go right to questioning? Is that fair?

With that, I really have nobody to start here, but I'm going to turn it over to Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I can start.

I noticed in the main estimates the pipeline investigation budget has been cut by 14%, $81.6 million, and marine safety has been cut by 7%.

The minister just said that protecting the coastlines is very important, and that tanker traffic and the pipeline going to the tankers was also a high priority. If that's a high priority, how can the department and the minister cut the pipeline investigation and marine safety so dramatically, and what impact would it have?

[Gerard McDonald, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport]

First of all, Mr. Chair, I'm not sure what's meant by “pipeline investigation”. We don't—

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

It's in your main budget.

The dollar amount was dropped by $81.6 million. It was originally over $500 million plus. It was then decreased substantially. Then the marine safety was cut by $4 million, by 7%.

[Gerard McDonald]

I can certainly speak to marine safety. I'm still perplexed by “pipeline investigation” because we don't do any pipeline investigation at Transport that I'm aware of.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I saw it in your estimates.

[André Morency, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Management and Crown Corporation Governance, Department of Transport]

No.