Why?
Evidence of meeting #69 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was union.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #69 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was union.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Is it possible to work if you choose not to be unionized?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
President, Linden Concrete Forming
I'm not allowed, unless I bow to the law requiring me to unionize. As I see it, requiring me to unionize is like forcing me to go to church. I won't go. We have freedom of religion, so we should have freedom of association.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I understand.
Are you following the Charbonneau commission?
4:10 p.m.
President, Linden Concrete Forming
I don't know if people were living under a rock, but I haven't learned anything new from the Charbonneau commission, and I don't think we will.
They're talking about collusion. It's true that Quebec's system is ripe for that, because it forces contractors to band together and unions, as well. What do people who join forces do? They talk about business and things take their course from there.
The Charbonneau commission will talk about how so and so had dinner with an elected official, for example. What is lobbying? When a person owns a business, they go places to obtain contracts. I haven't learned anything new so far.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Is there something in the system that encourages collusion?
4:15 p.m.
President, Linden Concrete Forming
In a system like Quebec's, where all the contractors and all the workers are required to band together, collusion is inevitable. People are forced to get together and have discussions as a family. When you're in a family, you talk and you divvy up the pot. That's what isn't acceptable.
If there's a restriction on the number of shops that can bid—we're getting there in Ontario—on a big project whose general contractor is unionized, then there's a restriction on the number of subcontractors who can bid. And that's collusion.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
If we opened the system up to competition and more people could bid, would that help us prevent problems like the ones coming out of the Charbonneau commission?
4:15 p.m.
President, Linden Concrete Forming
There's never a definitive answer. I've always thought that when a decision is made, it works for a limited period of time only, because dishonest people will always find a way around it.
Opening up the bidding would help and give the industry some relief. Introducing some oversight instead of adding review committees—we spend more time on reviews and studies than on oversight—would benefit Canadians more.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Mr. Oakey, are your members prepared to compete with unionized contractors?
4:15 p.m.
President, Merit Canada
Of course. We respect the right of all qualified contractors to compete and we accept the results of that competition.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
So you're not asking for a change that would require governments to pick your members in a competition.
4:15 p.m.
President, Merit Canada
No, that would go against every one of our founding principles.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
You're asking for all players in the market to have the same level playing field.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I think it was Mr. Pamic who said there was federal procurement limited to union-only contracting. Can you provide a list of recent examples of that?
4:15 p.m.
President, Merit Canada
Sure. It's usually done at the contract level, and we'll provide that. There are also some great examples where the federal government, in some recent Nova Scotia agreements, has written into the contract that there will be no union-only schemes and no sole-source contracts. There is a precedent for the federal government doing this.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
So there's a clause right now in one of the provincial agreements which requires open competition for federally funded projects.