Transport Committee on May 30th, 2013

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

In the CRISP 40-year trajectory that's been developed by the province of Alberta in conjunction with partners, it is a round table process. We used to have an agency in Canada called the National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy, which was actually charged to do did this with the federal government and with different folks. Senior players in energy, industry, government, labour came together and looked at these trajectories. But in the 40-year trajectory that you have, tell us more about the growth.

How do you project the growth? Does this plan address growth? Is it saying that the growth is too quick?

[Scott Clements]

The growth assumptions came from surveying the people who will cause the growth. They gave us the various scenarios: high, medium, and low. Against that, the detailed report shows the various growth levels and the consequences of each one, as well as the obligations with each one.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

So it gave options for low, medium, and high rates of growth. They didn't actually come to ground on a position about pace of development.

[Scott Clements]

They did make an assumption for purposes of drawing recommendations against a set of numbers. It was probably the medium assumption.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Clements, you make me feel very underdressed today.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

It's good to see you here. You look great, as do you, Mr. Taylor.

Mr. Clements, you're familiar with procuring work for large projects. If you were faced with a situation where only companies represented by a single union were allowed to bid on projects for either your authority or the City of Fort McMurray, would that increase or decrease the price?

[Scott Clements]

That's so hypothetical. Every union that exists is in Fort McMurray, I think. We just don't have that situation there.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

But if all but one were banned from bidding...? The reason I ask is that there are some municipalities where that is increasingly the case as a result of provincial labour laws. Given your experience with procurement and large projects and infrastructure, I wonder how you think it would affect costs if only one of the unions were allowed to work on all of the infrastructure of Fort McMurray or the airport.

[Scott Clements]

I think you'd have the obvious effect. Any monopoly situation is going to cause problems.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Okay, so you think it would increase prices?

[Scott Clements]

Absolutely.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

You also said that union bidders can win contracts fair and square, sometimes against union-free bidders.

[Scott Clements]

I don't think unions are bidding on contracts. I think companies are bidding on contracts, but they have unions working for them. That's the way it works.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Right. As it relates to the 40-year infrastructure plan, is it possible to allow the private sector to build some of this infrastructure?

[Scott Clements]

It's not only possible, but absolutely expected.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Could you give us some examples of major projects that could be privately driven?

[Scott Clements]

Sure. They're behind closed doors right now because they're working out deals. Cutting roads through the bush and building expensive bridges across these large rivers costs a lot of money, and it's servicing an oil company making money, so they're obviously going to be at the table and investing quite a bit of money. In some cases, they wouldn't even mind doing it on their own, but then you run into the problem of building your own airport and not sharing it. So you want a combination of government money and private sector money in a situation like this. That's what is being worked out right now in phases.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Are there any completed projects that have been done in this way in Fort McMurray?

[Scott Clements]

We can't take any credit for CRISP yet.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Sorry?

[Scott Clements]

That's the acronym for the 40-year plan.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

But are there private infrastructure projects that have come to fruition in your jurisdiction?

[Scott Clements]

The airport for sure and also all of that roadway work up in the work area, they're all private roads....