Transport Committee on May 30th, 2013

[Stephen Taylor]

I think many of the principles are the same. As I said, unfortunately, with respect to the way most people who study economics understand competition.... In Quebec, for example if I can speak specifically to that, I believe an entire commission is studying problems within the construction industry and the collusion that is occurring because it is a closed system. There are people who are being cut out of it. There is a lack of transparency, a lack of being able to bid on those projects. Unfortunately for Quebeckers, who are quite ashamed of what's going on in that system and are calling for—

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Allow me to add something.

[Stephen Taylor]

Yes, go ahead.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

That is what I take issue with. Are you trying to tell me that, had only open tendering been held with private, non-unionized companies in Quebec, corruption would have been impossible?

[Stephen Taylor]

No. Of course it's not a magic wand. It's not to say if it were more open, all of the problems in the construction industry in Quebec would disappear. Of course they would not. But should things be cleaned up in Quebec, it certainly would help the process to become more competitive and allow for infrastructure dollars allotted to projects there to go further.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your time has expired; I'm sorry.

Mr. Adler, you may have five minutes.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here this afternoon.

I want to begin my line of questioning with Mr. Clements.

I was in Fort McMurray last year, and one of my colleagues, the MP for Fort McMurray, Brian Jean, whom you probably know, gave us a comprehensive tour of the Fort McMurray oil sands.

What is striking about that part of the country is just how significant, when you see it first-hand, the amount of natural resources is that is being extracted from the ground and supplying the North American market, with a hope to supplying beyond it. I was really surprised to learn from Mr. Jean also that Fort McMurray is one of the most highly unionized cities in the country—I think the most highly unionized in the country. What would it do, if the Americans, as the NDP would want them to do, just stopped buying our natural resources?

As you know, they sent the delegation down to Washington about a year and a half ago, and their leader was just down there a few months ago talking down the Canadian oil sands. What would this do to the economy of Fort McMurray, the economy of the oil sands, the Canadian economy?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order. What does that have to do with the infrastructure and competition?

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

More than your questions did.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I don't know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I'm sure it's leading into that.

Mr. Adler.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Absolutely.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I'm sure it is.

[Scott Clements]

We wouldn't get, over 25 years, $2.1 trillion added to the Canadian economy. It has been quantified. That's $87 billion a year.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Yes.

[Scott Clements]

It's a big number.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Workers would be laid off.

[Scott Clements]

Absolutely.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

There would be a huge drain on the economy.

[Scott Clements]

The Alberta economy is still not diversified enough.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Not only the Alberta economy, but how many other parts of Canada get the spinoffs from what is being done in the oil sands—

[Scott Clements]

That's all quantified on the CAPP website, as well. It's a considerable number.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Yes, absolutely.

Clearly, it's a benefit to both unionized workers and non-unionized workers to have a booming resource sector in our country. What I don't understand—and I'm trying to wrap my mind around this—is this whole concept of closed-shop tendering. Maybe, Mr. Taylor, you could jump in on this.

We used to read about this, I remember, in university. We learned about the Soviet Union. They had these lists called “protectia”. The workers would have to get on these lists in order to be eligible to work.

How did we get to the place we are now, where 70% of Canada's workers are being excluded because they're not on a union list? How did we get to this point?

[Stephen Taylor]

I would suggest it might be getting worse because while the unionization rate of Canadian workers is decreasing—it has actually decreased by about 4% in the last number of years—the pool of qualified labour within the closed tendering process is actually getting smaller. Fewer organizations, fewer companies, are going to be able to bid on those projects, driving the costs up and up.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

What would that do to the quality of the work that's being done?