Transport Committee on Nov. 25th, 2013

[Gerard McDonald]

Yes.

Donald.

[Donald Roussel]

On the marine side, we did follow the coming into force of SMS at the international level, so we were not late at having the regulations. You can read, for example, SOLAS 98, but usually member states have about 18 months to implement a new set of regulations adopted by the International Maritime Organization. We've been following that and it has been in place for the past 15 years, at least.

There are challenges that we face internally for the domestic fleet. I must mention that many of our operators have adopted the safety management systems and they're using the services of recognized organizations to do the work, and we do audit them. We are fully informed when they're doing what we call the document of compliance, which is at the company level, and the certificate of compliance, which is at the vessel level. The challenge that we're facing at this juncture domestically is right down to the smaller operators, for example, fishing vessels and small passenger operations. How much of a large international system can they actually adopt?

We've done some preliminary work with many of the smaller operators. We've done some pilot projects. We have learned from those pilot projects and what I present in my presentation is we think we can go further at this juncture.

We also look at SMS in a holistic way. We do not think that it's just the federal regulator who is responsible for SMS. We think that, for example, the provincial workers' compensation boards have an interest in this as they are covering for accidents, liabilities, and for workers. We have seen some very interesting projects with WorkSafeBC, which is the equivalent of a workers' compensation board in British Columbia. They are helping operators with reductions in premiums when they adopt SMS on a voluntary basis. We think that there is major progress there. We're also working with the underwriters, asking them to help us implement SMS with smaller operators, and of course the provinces are authorizing commercial operations in their areas. Before they allow a commercial operation, they request that the company adopt a SMS.

Federal regulations, of course, need to have a pan-Canadian application, and the more broadly we look at it and the deeper we go, the more complex it gets.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm not sure if I understand exactly where it goes from Canadian to international. Can you clarify that for the record?

[Donald Roussel]

Shipping and navigations are global in nature outside Canada. For example, a Canadian vessel that is certified to make international voyages will have to meet the ISM Code. For a vessel leaving Montreal on a trip to Europe, when that vessel arrives in Europe, the Europeans will want to inspect the Canadian vessel to see that it has met international standards. It's the same for us when foreign vessels visit our country.

We have two programs for verification of foreign vessels, one on the eastern part of the country with what we call the Paris MOU on port state control, and on the Pacific side we have the Tokyo MOU. Both of those regimes give us safety, protection of the environment, and a security verification regime with 42 international partners altogether.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

You did say that there are the larger vessels, of course, the shipping vessels, that meet the international code, but what about the smaller vessels?

I think in your reply you said that WorkSafeBC is responsible for the smaller vessels and that you think they're in compliance, but are you sure? What do we have in place for that?

[Donald Roussel]

WorkSafeBC is not in charge of smaller vessels. WorkSafeBC is in charge of workers' compensation for all workers in the province of British Columbia.

To give you a concrete example of where we're working with them, the tug and barge operations in B.C. make up a very large group. We're working with them to ensure that if a company does adapt a safety management system—we want to be able to guide them on how to do this, which is why we're producing manuals and guidelines and so forth—they will help them financially at reducing some of their premiums, because they become a company less at risk.

We leave that portion to the workers' compensation boards of the province, but we think they have a very large leverage with smaller operators.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your time has expired, Ms. Young.

We now move to Ms. Boutin-Sweet for five minutes.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to start by talking about rail safety. In the United States and in Europe, rules have existed for some time. Meanwhile, the Transportation Safety Board is looking at a number of rules, particularly concerning braking systems. In the United States, this system has been in place for category-1 companies since 2008, and it is now being implemented for commuter trains.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I don't want to make too fine a point of this once again, but today is about safety management systems, both Transport Canada's understanding of safety management systems and its ability to implement safety management systems, not the broader regulatory framework.

If we're going to have a year-long study, we'll have ample opportunity to explore other aspects of the regulatory environment for rail or any other mode, including other aspects, whether there are any gaps in the regulatory environment. Safety management systems are not in and of themselves regulation, but we're examining that today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Yes.

Perhaps you could stick to the topic.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

In that case, I will move to another subject. I will talk about marine safety.

Funding for this area has been going down. This despite the fact that, between 2005 and 2010, oil tanker traffic has tripled, and this number will probably triple again by 2016. As for oil transport by rail, traffic has increased 280 times over since 2009. Despite this, budgets are being cut.

So on the one hand, more inspections are needed because more boats and trains are transporting oil. On the other hand, we have fewer inspectors and fewer inspections, because of budget cuts. How can this be reconciled?

[Gerard McDonald]

Maybe I could start off, Mr. Chair, by clarifying that while indeed some of the budgets at Transport Canada have reduced over recent years, when we undertook the deficit reduction plans at Transport Canada, we made a specific effort not to touch any of the inspection resources that were available within the department.

I think you will find that our level of inspection within the department has not decreased. In fact in some areas, rail safety in particular, the number of inspections has actually increased.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

However, the funds allocated to marine safety have dropped dramatically. We have the budgets, but could you provide us with figures on the number of inspections and inspectors as compared to 2009?

[Gerard McDonald]

Certainly, Mr. Chair. If that's the wish of the committee, we'd be happy to provide that information.

[Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet, NDP, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

Did you want to finish what you were saying earlier, Madam Crowder?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have two minutes left, if somebody—

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes, I have a follow-up.

Our understanding with regard to notification to municipalities on goods going through the municipality is that the data is going to be aggregated and reported in three months, but I understood you to say that municipalities will know in advance.

[Gerard McDonald]

No, I did not say that, Mr. Chair. I—

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Oh, okay, so let's clarify: municipalities will not know in advance.

[Gerard McDonald]

What I said is that the protective direction was developed in consultation both with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and with the Railway Association of Canada, and that all railways have indicated that they will follow the directive as it has been written.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

My understanding of the directive—at least what's in the public domain—is that aggregated data will be reported every three months, so in fact, goods will be going through communities without their knowledge beforehand. They'll know after the fact.

[Gerard McDonald]

Perhaps Madam Dagenais can clarify.

[Marie-France Dagenais]

This protective direction was actually agreed to by both parties: the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and the Railway Association of Canada. It is understood that trends in rail transport do not really change that much in terms of the costs on railways.

When you look at the smaller railways, there is a section in the protective direction indicating that if there is a significant change in what they see as a trend, the railways need to immediately notify the municipality that they see a trend and that there is a movement of an increase in certain types of transport of dangerous goods. Petroleum crude was one of the increases that was identified as something the municipalities should have been made aware of in terms of an increase.

The protective direction helps first responders in being fully equipped and fully trained. If you look at the transport per se of the different types of dangerous goods, if the train trend doesn't change, the firefighters and the first responders in each municipality are already or will be prepared and trained to answer any incident when the train actually goes through their municipality.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your time has expired.

I'll move to Mr. Albrecht for five minutes.