Evidence of meeting #3 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was company.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Do CN, CP, or any of the rail companies do their own system-wide audits on their safety management systems?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Yes, they do. They do internal audits.
November 25th, 2013 / 4:30 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Yes, it's one of the components of the SMS regulations.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
As to safety performance objectives, I heard you talk about proprietary information. I think it was Mr. McDonald who talked about the information that is submitted.
I understand that questions pertaining to their on-time performance or other elements like that are very proprietary, but why are safety performance objectives proprietary information? Why doesn't the public get to know, for example, that CN intends to improve the number of main-track derailments by 25% over the next year? Why is that proprietary, and for that matter, why shouldn't CP know that?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
I think sometimes in their annual reports the railways say globally what they have achieved in performance. They may not provide all the details, but usually people pretty much know their performance with respect to train derailments.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
They know it as a fact, but they don't know what their objectives are on the front end.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
Doesn't that mean that Transport Canada rather than the railway company, contrary to the idea of safety management systems, becomes primarily responsible for railway safety or the evaluation of it?
4:30 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
No, the act is clear under section 3 that it's the railway that is responsible for the safety of their operation.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON
I appreciate that, but it leaves Transport Canada in the position of being the only one that knows whether they are meeting their obligations.
I want to get to allocations here. In 2009 there was in the budget $44 million allocated to improvements to the regulatory framework, as well as $27 million to grade crossing improvement.
Can you give us a sense of what those framework improvements were for? Was that for organizational changes within Transport Canada to begin the shift toward the audit and evaluation function as opposed to the traditional inspectorate? Can you give us a sense of what those investments were for?
4:35 p.m.
Director General, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
You already mentioned the $27 million for grade crossing improvement. There was also about $44 million for oversight, and that means more inspectors to conduct inspection and audit. We also had money for R and D to handle some projects. We had enforcement officers in order to meet the amendment to the act. We also had people in order to assist with data analysis. That's about the split for the major categories we were provided money for.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Jonathan Genest-Jourdain NDP Manicouagan, QC
Ms. Dagenais, gentlemen, I have to admit that I was quite shocked when I read about the extent to which the government has delegated the responsibility of implementing transportation safety measures to the private sector. Of course, because I am a lawyer, my reflex was to look at the liability policies required when very compromising circumstances have environmental consequences.
What is the role of the state in terms of follow-up and verification in order to make sure that private businesses have sufficient liability policies in order to cover costs and resolve extensive environmental disasters? I am thinking for example of the oil spill that took place in my birthplace, Sept-Îles. Rehabilitating that site cost several million dollars.
4:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
That is something, Mr. Chair, that is governed by the Canadian Transportation Agency. The Canadian Transportation Agency, and I'm talking specifically on the rail side here right now, must ensure a company has adequate insurance before issuing a certificate of fitness.
The levels of insurance are something the agency has said they are going to look at. In addition, in the Speech from the Throne, the government indicated it would be reviewing the liability and compensation regime.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Jonathan Genest-Jourdain NDP Manicouagan, QC
Has Transport Canada examined the emergency response plans of regulated businesses under the dangerous goods transport regulations?
4:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
In what way? Are you referring to insurance?
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Jonathan Genest-Jourdain NDP Manicouagan, QC
It is in another area. I'm jumping from one topic to another.
Has Transport Canada examined the emergency response plans of all regulated businesses under the dangerous goods transport regulations? If so, how often have they been examined? If not, why hasn't this been done?
4:35 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
I'll ask Ms. Dagenais to answer that question.
4:35 p.m.
Marie-France Dagenais Director General, Transportation of Dangerous Goods, Department of Transport
Transport Canada must approve the plan before it comes into force. We must approve all proposed plans. We have roughly 900 plans. We review the plans according to risk. The plans are reviewed every two to five years by Transport Canada specialists who undergo training and simulations at our CANUTEC emergency centre to verify the implementation of the plans and to ensure that they conform to what was initially authorized and approved.
4:35 p.m.
NDP
Jonathan Genest-Jourdain NDP Manicouagan, QC
Let's return to insurance. Your colleague spoke to us about rail transport, but I am particularly concerned with the marine transport of hydrocarbons. Does marine transport have the same requirements concerning the purchase of third-party liability insurance policies? Are there the same kind of requirements for marine transport as there are for rail transport?
