Transport Committee on Oct. 7th, 2014

[Anne Legars]

With respect to our ships, the Canadian regulations do import the UN IMO Code, so there are no differences. That's pretty much the same as far as our ships are concerned, so we have no issue with that.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

All right.

Now with respect to the safety management systems, are you able to say what the effect of the introduction of safety management systems has had?

[Anne Legars]

It has helped to implement a philosophy of continuous improvement and the culture of safety, so it has been a useful tool in helping that.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Have there been any issues with regard to transition to safety management systems in addition to the regulations?

[Anne Legars]

I remember when this was introduced about 15 years ago, everybody pulled their hair and said this was so difficult, so much paper, so much process. It was seen as very burdensome. However, after it was implemented and people started to work with it, they realized they could do it and it was useful. Now it's not an issue any longer.

Of course when it's introduced it's always difficult and burdensome, but it has been running for about 14 or 15 years now and it's a non-issue.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The parliamentary secretary mentioned that there are different handlers of dangerous goods, both on the ground, I suppose, and on the vessels—loading the vessels. There may be different responsibilities, but safety training would be a significant issue.

Does your federation involve itself with respect to training?

[Anne Legars]

Yes. Actually, on our side, the training we are providing to our members is the basic dangerous goods training. Under the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act, any entity that deals with the transportation of dangerous goods has to make sure that all employees have appropriate training. Depending on what the employee does, the training will be different. So you have some kind of basic training, which is a kind of general culture on what dangerous goods are and what the various classes are, and things like that. Then you have people who are really involved in the actual handling of specific products who will have a more detailed training. What we have proposed to members is that they can go with various service providers, because you have many companies that specialize in education and also provide this training.

What we provide to members is the basic training, for when they are clerks or people who are not necessarily working in dangerous goods handling, things like that, so that they know there is a specific regime for dangerous goods handling, and so on and so forth. We have a basic one-day course. But in addition to that, the members will have to train their own people who do some specific handling to make sure they have the appropriate knowledge and, if necessary, certification.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Do you provide any protocol or basic standards that are required with respect to such training? Or do you provide your members with the bottom line?

[Anne Legars]

No, we don't do that. For example, if our members want container lines and are involved in [Inaudible--Editor] transportation, they will have to have their own training with specialized trainers to make sure that their people know that. Anyway they will have worldwide protocols, guidelines, and procedures that will apply in all the countries where they deal. So we are not involved in that.

What we propose is really a one-on-one session for whoever, say a new clerk that you have just hired and need to have this kind of global knowledge. That's what we do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

I'll now move to Mr. Sullivan for five minutes.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Buy, is the association responsible for the transportation of any rail over water, or is it only people and cars? The rail transportation is by barges run by railroads, not by your association?

[Serge Buy]

Yes.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

But you do transport trucks. One would presume that the majority of the dangerous goods transported would be somewhere on some of those trucks. How much do you know about what is transported? How much data can you give us about the tonnage of dangerous goods transported on ferries?

[Serge Buy]

It's hard to provide the data. We're actually assembling the data as we speak, and we're getting some information on that. Transport Canada has the data, because it is something that we have to report. It is something that Transport Canada would have.

You're correct in saying that if there are trucks going on our ships, some of them do include dangerous goods, hence the protocol's in place to deal with them.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Is the protocol in place so that you know what's on the trucks before they get on?

[Serge Buy]

Yes, we have to know what's on the trucks before they get on it.

As I mentioned, and I gave you a little hint, we have to rely on the voluntary declaration by the truck drivers. Although we do our own inspections on occasion, we do rely on what is said for some of them. We, on occasion, have to rely on the honesty of some of the people who fill in the declarations.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Does Transport Canada ever inspect those trucks themselves?

[Serge Buy]

There are some inspections of trucks. I don't know if it's by Transport Canada or the provincial ministries of transportation, but there are some inspections. What we would like to see is a little bit more inspections of trucks prior to their coming on board our ships.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Because if it's voluntary and they don't tell you—

[Serge Buy]

The voluntary aspect is a bit difficult.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Yes, because if you don't know, you can't be prepared for it.

[Serge Buy]

Well, you can be prepared to a certain extent. I don't want to leave the impression that if something happens we don't know what to do. We do know what to do. The issue is that if something happens, it's much easier to a situation that you know may happen, rather than be surprised because there is something in there.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Do you make a habit of putting the dangerous goods in specific places on the ferries? Is that part of—

[Serge Buy]

Yes. Depending on the ship, there is a certain protocol of where they're going to be, how they're going to be dealt with, etc.

[Mike Sullivan, NDP, York South—Weston, ON]

Is that protocol set by Transport Canada or by the ferry owners themselves?