Evidence of meeting #37 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Senior Vice President, Truck Transportation, Gibson Energy Inc., Canadian Trucking Alliance
Yes, we do short haul in Saskatchewan, and as far as safety management systems go, we do have a system in place.
A lot of that was driven not only by our own internal assessments, but also those of our customers. We started on that process about three years ago, and we do have formal systems in place.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Thank you, Mr. Bantle.
We'll now move to Mr. Yurdiga for seven minutes.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you to the witnesses for coming to inform us on what's happening in the industry.
Mr. Bradley, what are the major components of a safety management system or best practices typically included in your industry? Do they include local first responders, and if not why couldn't it?
12:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
As it pertains to dangerous goods, yes, absolutely. Anybody who's involved in the dangerous goods business has a program of people it contacts in the event of a spill. Significant liabilities are at play here that can threaten your business and your company. The safety management systems would encompass safe operations of a vehicle, training, maintenance of vehicles, fatigue management, product-specific type of information, depending on which dangerous goods, if you're hauling dangerous goods at all. That's just how they do business.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
In addition to that, in my experience from a municipal background, we have a lot of communities where the major truck haul is right through a small community, and our local fire departments a lot of times are not informed of the type of loads going through. I'm not saying every load should be reported, but our fire department should have the ability to prepare or have a plan to deal with a situation that may arise.
It's not a daily thing. I don't think it would be onerous on the industry to say they are carrying various types of chemicals that could be flammable or poisonous, or whatever it may be.
Shouldn't that be the responsibility of the industry? A lot of our fire departments are volunteer, and they should be prepared to deal with any situation that may arise.
12:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
A major feature of the regulations of the transportation of dangerous goods is all our conveyances have to be placarded to provide the information about what's on board, so one might argue that this is already there.
We have never been asked by a fire department or by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities to talk about this. If they want to talk about it, we're absolutely happy to talk about it.
Again, the incident level involving trucks has not been anywhere near to the extreme you would see in the big shipments of the bulk stuff where you have a chain reaction. We don't have that situation in trucking.
It doesn't mean you can't have incidents and you couldn't have dangerous situations for people, but not of the order of magnitude you would expect to see in the other mode.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I would like to address this question to anyone who wants to answer it.
I realize the freight transportation industry faces an array of challenges. Our highways are getting busier. I'm from northern Alberta where we have Highway 63, which is very busy.
Are the technological advances assisting in reducing the number of incidents? I was reading about real-time data collection, and how it monitors things and sends information back in real time to wherever it goes.
Is that a significant improvement for the industry as far as safety standards go?
12:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
Absolutely. If anything, from a technological point of view, the pace of change in our industry is so rapid that the regulatory environment hasn't kept up. I'm not talking about pie in the sky stuff, but stuff that's been tested, is in broad use by responsible carriers, and that works.
Part of the reason for that is the way trucking is regulated in Canada. The administration of the regulatory system has been delegated to the provinces, and it's like a constitutional conference every time we try to change the smallest rule and make advances.
Definitely, the industry is frustrated that on things like electronic logging devices, electronic stability control, and those sorts of things, that those things are not being regulated so everyone has to play by the rules.
12:35 p.m.
Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada
From our side, the feedback I get is that the drivers are extremely.... A lot of our carriers do have electronic logbooks, whether they're okayed or not, navigation controls, and satellites. It's not that they're tracked, but they know where they're going; they're avoiding accidents. As an example, instead of waiting for a big logjam on a highway, they're pulled off and they're sent on an alternate route on the fly. They know where they're stopping for the night because it's in their book. These technological advances make it easier for drivers to do their job and to pay attention to the road, rather than all of the details that they may have done in the past. We would welcome these changes to, let's say, the good carriers that were already moving forward with it and we're waiting for the regulations to catch up.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
David Yurdiga Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I have one last question.
We do live in a climate that's always changing, whether it's freezing rain or whatever. A lot of accidents are not as a result of other drivers and it's not necessarily the companies themselves. Who makes the final decision whether trucks should continue to go on a road that is not in a safe condition? Is it the driver? Is it the company? Or do you wait for some regulatory body to say that you can't drive on it?
Mr. Shaw.
12:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Manitoba Trucking Association
I was going to say that all parties play a role, primarily our drivers. They're the ones in the seat so they make the call. That said they may not know what's ahead of them down the road. As Mr. Benson had suggested, the ability to communicate in real time about opportunities or need for change directionally that is weather related, or a whole host of other items, is something that we have greater access to these days and we see greater collaboration in this regard. It's all of the above.
12:40 p.m.
Lobbyist, Teamsters Canada
It's the logistics for a company to be able to tell a client that because of a road condition, their shipment is delayed or it will be coming in the next morning. If you go back 15 or 20 years, that was not possible. You'd have an irate company or an irate customer waiting for delivery. The ability for communication and to avoid incidents is a really important step and it's welcome. The electronic logbooks are certainly, for the people who have them, a welcome addition.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Your time has expired, Mr. Yurdiga.
I would remind the witnesses that they may want to use the earpiece for translation.
I want some clarification on two points on electronic logbooks versus the other. Mr. Shaw and Mr. Bradley, it would seem to me that members of your association are trucking companies. If they have such a concern that the paper logbooks are being abused, because it seems to me that's what you're implying, why aren't they voluntarily putting them in all of their trucks?
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
They are. The vast majority of companies already have them. It's the folks who try to avoid compliance, who go around the inspection stations, who are cheating, who don't, and need to be required to. That's always the way it works with any regulation. The industry is moving forward with this.
What we need is for the government to catch up with us and make sure that everyone is playing by the rules.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
I guess my comment to that would be with a question, Mr. Bradley.
You say “waiting for government to catch up”, where I would say, from an individual who likes less government interaction, although we have to have some, is it not the responsibility of those carriers in your organization to catch up and isn't it your role as your organization to push those individuals to do that?
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
Well absolutely, but those sorts.... We wish that everyone were a member. We represent them all, they just don't all pay their dues. There are always going to be the fly-by-nighters who don't belong, who don't participate, who have not got religion as it were. That's where it's the government's role to step in and make sure we all play by the rules. Without enforcement, regulations are worthless.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
What is your estimate of the percentage of companies that don't comply?
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
Well, don't comply or don't have—
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Trucking Alliance
It would be a small proportion. I would say that if we could deal with the bottom 5% or 10% of the industry we would have a vastly different situation on the highways than we have now.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
On that last point, I agree with you completely. Self-regulation is rampant in the industry, and I think it's important that the government take a stand and support your efforts in this fight.
If I understood correctly, Mr. Bradley, you said that nearly 70% of accidents occur during loading or unloading. Is that correct?
