Evidence of meeting #47 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was year.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
The reason we wanted to make sure we brought that program in was that prior to that it would be a very convoluted criminal process of trying to get the Public Prosecution Service to go ahead.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Okay, you've got as of right now, 50 seconds for the question and answer.
3:45 p.m.
NDP
Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My comments will be brief.
There have been cuts to the tune of $11 million in aviation security and $19 million in aviation safety, for a total of $30 million. However, many inspectors are worried that these cuts will lead to fewer and fewer actual inspections. There will be what we call “inspections on paper”.
Between 2012 to 2013, the number of inspectors has been reduced by 15 in Canada. Could you tell me how many inspector positions will be eliminated, what these cuts mean and, if possible, could you assure us that the number of inspectors will not be reduced?
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Again, we're indicating in the main estimates that there is an increase in the amount of money for aviation safety, from $170 million to $173 million. That is because we're actually putting more money into our operating budgets. With respect to the number of inspectors and the inspections that we currently have, at the beginning of the year, we had 656 nationally and at the end of Q3 we had 686 oversight activities. Of course, we continue to complete these planned inspections on time and on pace.
3:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, Infrastructure Canada
Let me clarify some points.
The inspector positions have never been cut. However, because of the nature of the beast, we have a turnover rate of 6% to 7% per year. What happened is that certain managers did not take the appropriate measures quickly enough to replace the people who were naturally going to have to retire.
Over the past year and a half, we have implemented a very specific plan and follow-up for managers to know that they need to replace those vacant positions. As a result, we have been able to increase the number of inspectors despite the retirements. We will continue that going forward. The number of inspector positions has not been reduced.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, Minister, gentlemen and ladies.
Minister, a plain reading of the estimates indicates that between 2014-15 and 2015-16, you're cutting $202 million from Transport Canada. That's a cut of 11%. This is at a time when Ontarians this past weekend watched another train on fire for two consecutive days, which our first responders struggled with for many risky hours.
I always like to think that the federal government, in particular, has an obligation to get the big things right, Minister. One of those is rail safety. Your deputy just said that, all things being equal, there have been no cuts to the number of inspectors. The Auditor General warned you and your department in his last report that he could not find at all the rationale for why you have the number of inspectors you have. He went on to indicate that you only completed 26% of the audits that had to be completed. You almost got three-quarters left behind. VIA Rail with 4 million passengers a year, has not been audited once in a three or four year period.
Minister, with your backstop help here, perhaps they can help me understand the following, because I'm sure it is related to your estimates and the number of inspectors and qualified auditors, etc., you have. What increase has there been in the transportation of oil by rail since your government's arrival? Do you know? Does anybody know in your department?
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Let's start with some facts, Mr. McGuinty, if I may.
First of all, the year-over-year decrease in the main estimates isn't the $202 million that you indicate. The main estimates in 2014 were at $1.665 billion; this year they are at $1.615 billion.
The increase in the amount of the estimates to date had to do with new projects that we brought in, statutory forecasts, etc., that we've been talking about in the supplementaries as the year has gone by. I appreciate having my officials here, but they don't need to explain things to me. I fully understand the numbers and I'm able to read them myself.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Great, so what has the increase been in oil by rail in the last, say, eight or nine years?
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Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
If I may finish, what I can tell you is that we have a very good grasp of what is happening with respect to this commodity.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
In 2009 there wasn't a single barrel moving on the rails. Since then, we're at approximately 180,000 barrels that are travelling...or, tank cars that are travelling right now.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Okay, so how many inspectors did you have nine years ago when you came into government, and how much oil was being transported? How many inspectors do you have today, and how much oil's being transported?
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
That's a false analogy, and I'll tell you why.
The rail system is set up in the following way. The regulations are in place to ensure that people follow them. We expect that companies will follow them. We have inspectors to ensure that the railways are doing what they need to do. They also are subject to the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act, and we have inspectors in that area as well. Finally, we have a safety management system in place indicating that the companies must embed safety management in their culture. They do that as well. We audit that as well.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
You said that before. I heard that, Minister.
What you're saying is that despite the fact there's been a 1,600% increase in oil by rail in the last three years alone, the number of inspectors does not have to increase. Is that right?
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
What I'm saying is that we have increased the number of inspectors—
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Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
—and we have increased the number of inspections, which is by far the better metric that—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
How many inspectors? Say, in the last three years, you're at one-hundred-and—
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lisa Raitt Conservative Halton, ON
Mr. Chair, either I'm going to talk or he's going to talk. You're going to have to help me here.
