Transport Committee on March 10th, 2015

[Louis Lévesque]

The criteria are in line with the trade agreements we have signed. These agreements do not include specific criteria or rules about the origin of materials, for instance.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

In other words, the impact on Canada's economy does not matter in your selection criteria. That is why I am asking that the criteria be public.

You know just as well as I do that we are not breaking our free trade agreements if Transport Canada buys materials made in Canada or in Quebec for its infrastructure projects. I don't understand why this aspect is not being considered.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You must understand that we cannot violate those agreements.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

We are not violating the agreements.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We are meeting the criteria in that sense. We said that 30,000 jobs will be created here. By 2018, we will follow a process and we will do so according to the rules.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

You are talking about 30,000 jobs?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The entire project will generate 30,000 jobs.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Do we know how those jobs will be created? We find this very troubling.

You are asking us to pass budgets, but you are not telling us what criteria you are using for a project that, as you said, is a large-scale initiative. In fact, it is one of the largest projects in Canada and, as it turns out, it is in the riding of Brossard—La Prairie. However, the key point is—and I think we all agree—the lack of transparency. This is reminiscent of the problems identified by the Charbonneau Commission.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

No, you want me to go down that road, but I won't allow it. We have been playing by the book from the outset. In terms of the selection, there are several stages and levels. Everything is done by the book and we are following the OECD rules in all areas. We have been doing an outstanding job since the beginning and we will continue to do so. This project will be ready three years ahead of schedule.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

As parliamentarians, how can we know that you are doing a good job? There is no way we can know whether you are actually following the rules. You say that you are and we have to take you at your word.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We are not going to release information during a tendering process for a contract that is worth so much, since we don't want to risk giving an advantage to one or more companies when the well-being of Canadian taxpayers is at stake.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Your selection criterion is that the company will have to create jobs in Canada. It is a good thing if the consortium you have selected meets that criterion. Those are exactly the criteria that we need to understand. Unfortunately, I think there is a lack of transparency.

As you know, with the exception of the Conservative government, everyone is against the toll. We can calculate the profit that the private company will make if the toll remains an option. However, can you assure us that, if another government came to power and decided to scrap the toll, we would not have to pay a penalty to the consortium?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

First, I don't agree with what you just said. We will continue to work on this matter. You are asking me to talk about the amount for the toll without knowing how much the bridge will cost.

Think about it and see whether it makes sense. We are going to wait and see what the amount in the submission is and examine the issue. Let me remind everyone that the federal government will be paying a significant portion of the cost for the bridge and will decide how much the toll will be. That happened a few months before highways 30 and 25 opened, and now we are talking about the bridge opening in 2018. People might find out well in advance what they will have to pay.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Lévesque, who had some important information for you.

[Louis Lévesque]

Here is what we are asking companies to include in their submissions.

Three qualified consortia will submit a price for the construction, maintenance and so on, as well as a price for managing a toll system. However, the government will determine how much the toll will be. The company in question will not make a profit or incur any losses related to the toll. It will receive the payments as established by the owner of the bridge, the federal government. Its financial situation will not be affected by the toll in any way.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I don't think a private company would be interested if it can't make a profit.

[Louis Lévesque]

The financial structure is such that toll revenue will essentially go back to the government, not the company. The company is basing its submission on the payment for the cost of the bridge and the subsequent annual payments. As the minister said, the government will consider all of that and determine what the bridge tolls will be at a later date. It will not have an impact on what the developers will be paid, except perhaps in a minor way, for maintenance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Mr. McGuinty, for seven minutes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the committee, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Minister, I'd like to start by recalling an exchange we had about a year ago on March 25, 2014. I asked you if there was any new money with respect to the estimates. Mr. Lévesque responded that it was not in the estimates. I replied, is there no new money on April 1? You replied, Minister, no, it is not in the estimates.

This year you brought us estimates of $3.6 billion—down from roughly $3.7 billion last year—when infrastructure needs in Canada are soaring, when overpasses and roads are falling on the heads of people living, for example, in

the beautiful city of Montreal.

The old Building Canada fund had grown to about $1.6 billion a year for community infrastructure projects, but now the funding has dropped off a cliff. This is undeniable. It's falling by close to 90% to just $210 million per year, starving municipalities of much-needed cash.

It won't recover for five years. You know that. We know that. It's punted into a political never-never land and we know why, Minister, because it's a political decision, and governments make political decisions. Fair enough. But your government has made a decision in an attempt to balance a budget and make reckless spending promises with respect to income splitting, for example.

You have done nothing, or little, or not as much as you could have, to generate economic growth, create jobs, and help middle-class families.

How do you explain this?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

First of all, I totally disagree with you. I have a chart from Budget 2013 of the average age of public infrastructure in Canada. You can see the age of the infrastructure from 1973 to 1994 and 1997. The peak age of infrastructure in the country was in 2000, 2003, 2006. Since that era, it's been declining and will continue to do so because we're investing in infrastructure.

I, like 25 other of my colleagues, including the chair of this committee, am a former municipal politician. We know exactly what is on the table now. We have doubled, extended

in legislation for the

gas tax fund. But that's a 10-year program; it's not a race. They don't have to expend this money this year, but for the next 10 years. No money will be taken from this program.

For the national infrastructure component, for the provincial and territorial component, it's a 10-year program. In the budget we have the money needed for the projects, but it's not a race, and the provinces and municipalities will have all the money they want in the next 10 years.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That's good to hear. I'm sure the Federation of Canadian Municipalities will be delighted to hear they are going to have all the money they need. We'll get that out to them.

But I have two other specific questions for you, Minister.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

In this program for sure.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Two questions.

The Minister of Transport was here just a minute ago. She confirmed for us that this government is spending $35 million on rail safety, and I'm now advising you that you're spending $42 million on economic action plan advertising.

As part of your estimates, the government has given an additional $11 million for more obscene advertising on television and billboards. Your infrastructure department has spent $29 million on billboards in the last five years. That's $29 million on billboards, Minister.

Of the $11 million that has been allocated to the government, how much is your department spending on billboards and additional advertising in these estimates?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The Federation of Canadian Municipalities has been involved in all the processes to build this Building Canada plan.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Who's spending the $29 million?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I have listened to you for your question. You will listen to my answer.

We have built the program with them for 10 years, but there have been around 13 round tables all across Canada. They have known since the beginning of the process what will be in the program, and the money reserved for them through the gas tax fund for 10 years will all be sent to them, and we'll continue to work with them.

I didn't hear the Minister of Transport's answer to you.