Transport Committee on Sept. 24th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Badawey is next.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Here is a question I asked one of the fellows from CBSA up in Ottawa: digging a bit deeper into the weeds with respect to your comments on the earlier questions from Ron, what steps will CBSA take to facilitate cross-border commerce, especially with the direction we're taking by establishing a more nationally recognized trade corridor in the Niagara area?

Second, this is an interesting stat your president, John Ossowski, mentioned at a recent conference: a 1% increase in border delay negatively impacts GDP by more than 1%.

How are you going to be able to deal with this, especially if the traffic over the border escalates within the next few years?

[Richard Comerford]

In answering your question, I believe what you're referring to is “thickening” of the border, or increased border wait times. I think there are a few areas I can approach to respond to that question.

One is, as I mentioned, about resources. Since April 2017 we have had approximately 130 new recruits come into the region. It's a matter of taking those recruits and making sure they are strategically placed within areas where we have need when we have increased traffic. From a resourcing perspective, that has already been done, and we've seen the difference in making sure we're meeting the border wait times.

The other area is in terms of planning. Operational planning is very important when you're running an operation similar to CBSA. It's important to understand all the environmental and economic factors we have. For instance, any increase in the dollar will generate a significant amount of cross-border movement. As you are well aware from your area, people will definitely cross the border to go shopping if the dollar is better or at par. We have a planning process in which we look at that economic factor.

Other factors we look at are historical trends. We look at it from monthly, weekly, daily, and hourly perspectives. We know exactly from a historical perspective how many vehicles may be coming through in that particular hour at that particular POE, and we resource accordingly. Again, in that planning, we try to have flexibility with our resources by moving them from one location to another.

For instance—I'm giving you some anecdotal examples—when there's a sporting event taking place, for instance in Buffalo, you are going to encounter a surge of travellers coming back in a hurry after a sporting event. It's a matter of ensuring we have the right level of resources at the right time to process those people.

The same thing can apply to commerce. The Ambassador Bridge is our busiest land border port of entry for commerce. We operate 13 commercial primary lanes at the Ambassador Bridge from nine o'clock in the morning to nine o'clock at night, and all the lanes are open.

Those are ways that we plan to move this forward and plan to deal with the increased volume, but that's only part of the solution. The other part, as was mentioned, is the technological piece. We need to continue to review and look at efficiencies through technological change, such as RFID.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

We've heard this morning about the need for more dialogue. One person referred to it as a shared commitment to a new culture of working closer together versus working in silos. That said, we have the border. We have a lot of traffic coming over the border. We have participants trying to facilitate or expedite that traffic over the border.

The first question is this: where do you see your participation in creating that more formalized trade corridor here in Niagara-Hamilton? Second, what can we do to help you accomplish those goals?

I guess it's a question for all three of you.

[Richard Comerford]

Thank you for the question. Maybe I'll start.

As you know, we work very closely with our stakeholders—specifically, my colleagues from the bridges—in southern Ontario. We have a very strong relationship. We are always sitting down and discussing new and innovative ideas and new ways of managing. We also sit down to talk about challenges and issues. When those issues arise, we look at solutions. We are very much engaged in that now through formal and informal discussions.

I'll pass this on to my friends.

[Kenneth Bieger]

I have another perspective. We're talking about technology, about the direction of technology and the need and clearly the future of the border. We're talking about the borders of the future and where things are going. It's endless when you hear about what is going on in some of the pilot programs at the Peace Bridge and up at Windsor.

If you're looking for something that you really could do to help, as one of the things, I would encourage the relationship between CBSA and CBP. I've been in this role for a year and a half. Peace Bridge has been nice enough to host a meeting once a year, with CBSA and CBP together, where we've talked about technology and how things are going. When you look around the room of 25 people, you see how excited people are that we can actually share ideas on where the future is.

For years it appeared that there wasn't that communication, that connection, between the two countries, and there are obvious reasons to do with legalities, but the more that this could be encouraged by the government, from Ottawa, to do that from the Canadian side—and the U.S. side also—to get a group working together.... There's no reason to have all these smart technological brains working completely separately when they could be working together on a similar problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Aubin is next.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for your remarks, gentlemen, but let me tell you right off the bat that I had difficulty following you. It is not that you were not specific, but, since I do not come from a border area myself, the jargon you use is a little beyond me.

I am going to try to ask some questions that will clear it all up.

First, in terms of a risk-based approach, I understand the spirit of that well, but can you be more precise and tell me whether we are talking about two, three or five levels of risk? How do you define the approach, or the people you examine?

[Richard Comerford]

Thank you for your question in terms of the risk-based approach that CBSA uses. This approach is the foundation of CBSA in order to get enough information on an individual, a company or a commodity, and to assess that through various means in terms of looking at various enforcement databases to understand what level of risk there is with that individual or company or those goods.

We do this on an ongoing basis. That's what we refer to as our trusted traveller and trusted trader programs. It's about getting enough information in advance in order to understand if there's any risk associated to any of the entities that will be crossing over the border. We refer to it as “advance information”, and if we're talking about traders, that comes to CBSA prior to the goods coming into the country. That's the main principle in how we operate.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

You have all talked about technology a great deal. But I was surprised to see that NEXUS, which is the system I perhaps know best, is not available everywhere. You talked about other technologies that I do not know, like RFID. A little later, I gathered that it is probably a chip that can be remotely detected electronically while vehicles are moving.

Is technology, which is developing very quickly, moving forward faster than our ability to equip every border crossing with it?

[Kenneth Bieger]

I'll start. I think the question about the direction of technology and where it's going was also asked a little while ago. Whether it's RFID or the NEXUS card, right now this appears to be a short-term solution.

Obviously, the long-term solution is biometrics or something along that line. The technology needs to be perfected. I think we have about a five-year window in which we're still going to see the use of RFID readers and cards and these NEXUS cards, until the confidence level is high enough on biometrics that these cards will eventually be antiquated. I think that's the plan. Whether it's out 10 years or 15, at some time there probably won't be a need for any cards.

I don't know if you have the same thoughts, Ron, but there's definitely going to be a period of time while they'll be needed until the confidence level for biometrics is up.

[Ron Reinas]

Certainly from our perspective, RFID has been around for a very long time, and it is accepted technology.

The U.S. has had technology. All of their booths have been instrumented with RFID for years. They issue passport cards. When you apply for your passport, you get a wallet-sized RFID card. In Buffalo in Erie County, the Department of Transportation issues enhanced driver's licences that have RFID chips in them.

Our challenge at the border is that those similar technologies are not being used by the Government of Canada. Passport Canada does not issue passport cards. I believe the Ministry of Transportation of Ontario has only issued about 10,000 enhanced driver's licences.

While we have some RFID booths—and we're actually installing more—we really don't get the full benefit of that technology if the Government of Canada does not issue those documents. That's the challenge for us.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I have done some travelling in regions of Africa where people have jumped over one stage of development. People have moved directly to cellphones without ever having had a landline.

Should the Government of Canada see that as a possibility too? If biometrics is the technology of tomorrow, should we not move past RFIDs, which we have not really mastered, and move directly to this technology of tomorrow, especially if that is the way the United States is going too?

[Richard Comerford]

Maybe I can answer that question in the way of engagement, actually.

We are very much engaged with the U.S. CBP in terms of our technical advancements on both sides of the border. We meet at the national headquarters level on a regular basis and look at different ways we can use different types of technology. For the CBSA, we have a lab, and that lab is one of the main entities that has been driving the secure corridor.

In terms of biometrics, we have tested biometrics with the NEXUS card when you arrive at airports. You get an iris scan, and that's one of the features we've been using.

We are continuously testing the use of biometrics, and I see that as the advancement going forward. It's just not there yet. I'm not a technological expert, so I can't give you the specifics around that, but I can tell you that we are looking at different options.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Hardie is next.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here. I have a question for all of you.

Obviously you have a material interest in how the whole trade corridor works. Do you find yourself with the opportunity to be at the table when trade policies or infrastructure or some of the other component pieces are discussed and planned? Do you have that opportunity?

[Ron Reinas]

Certainly we would like more of that opportunity. We don't have it enough.

We correspond mostly with CBSA and CBP in terms of the border issues. However, in terms of dealing with this—and this is what I said in my remarks—we have to break down the silos, not only within federal government agencies but also with the province and with the local municipality. It really takes a holistic approach to look at these types of trade corridors. They're all interconnected, and a lot of times we don't see that interconnectivity in the way we should.

[Richard Comerford]

Certainly we are engaged through the machinery of government when there are infrastructure changes that are going to take place. Whether it's through Transport Canada or other government departments, they reach out to the CBSA and provide us with information in terms of where they're heading. Then we look at it from a project basis, on what our requirements are to operate as well.

I can say that we are engaged at a national level.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

It would be ideal, of course, in the process of doing your jobs on a day-to-day basis, to have a channel by which you could feed back the experiences you're having, and in that way—because everybody would be involved in looking at the systems and trying to improve—to up the game a little bit.

What's the process to become a trusted trader? What do you have to do?

[Richard Comerford]

It depends on where you are in the trade continuum. If you're a carrier and a driver, we're looking for you to provide information about yourself or your company for us to do a risk assessment. Based on that risk assessment, if it's low risk, we will provide you with a trusted status. Our trusted status is a “free and secure trade” card, a FAST card. Drivers use that to cross the border. It indicates that they meet the requirements. It's very similar to the NEXUS requirements.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Is the border crossing just a matter of a few moments, then?

[Richard Comerford]

Well, there are different kinds of processing. If you are a non-trusted trader, that processing will definitely take a little longer, because we have several questions that we'll need to ask at the point of entry into Canada. If you are a trusted trader, definitely that process is more streamlined. Now, as part of the pilot with our secure corridor, it's even more streamlined.

There are different levels of service, based on the risk information that we receive.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

We've heard quite often that in the process of making a car, the car or components of it will go back and forth across the border any number of times. In particular, you mentioned that it's the Ambassador Bridge that's primarily being used to ship auto components.

On average, how many back-and-forth trips would an individual trucker do in a day across that bridge? Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Richard Comerford]

That is a very difficult question, but the automotive industry is there and it does run some of its cargo back and forth across the U.S., whether that's a driver from the industry itself or a contract driver. That could happen anywhere from one to maybe four or five times.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

On a scale of one to 10, where one is horrible and 10 is perfect, how would you rate us? Taking a 30,000-foot view, looking at regulations and how harmonized or not they are, or how balanced the infrastructure is on both sides of the border or even interprovincially, let's take both sides of the border. Do we have a lot of work to do on regs? Do we have a lot of work to do to make sure that if we improve things in Canada, the States can accept the extra traffic or vice versa?