Evidence of meeting #11 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jobs.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Calin Rovinescu  President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Bartholomew Chaplin
Kevin Howlette  Senior Vice-President, Regional Market and Government Affairs, Air Canada
David Rheault  Director, Government Affairs and Community Relations, Air Canada
David Chartrand  Québec Coordinator, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
Jean Poirier  Official Spokesperson, Association des anciens travailleurs des centres de révision d'air Canada
Serge Cadieux  General Secretary, Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec
Fred Hospes  President and Directing General Chairman, District Lodge 140, Richmond, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Canada
Gilbert Mc Mullen  President, Association des anciens travailleurs des centres de révision d'air Canada

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm calling to order the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, 42nd Parliament, for meeting number 11.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, April 20, we are dealing with Bill C-10, An Act to amend the Air Canada Public Participation Act and to provide for certain other measures. We have with us from Air Canada Calin Rovinescu, president and chief executive officer; and Kevin Howlette, senior vice-president, regional market and government affairs.

Gentlemen, as you know, there has been a vote called for later on, so we don't have a lot of time. I'd ask that you make your most critical points so that the committee has a chance to also get some questions out there.

I will turn it over to whoever would like to go first.

Please, the floor is yours.

3:40 p.m.

Calin Rovinescu President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you for allowing me to speak to you today about the importance of modernizing the Air Canada Public Participation Act and, more specifically, about Air Canada's position on Bill C-10.

With me today is Kevin Howlette, our senior vice president of Regional Markets and Government Affairs.

To start, I would like to say that we support this bill, especially because it is designed to allow Air Canada to be more competitive in a global context. The bill recognizes that the airline industry has undergone a dramatic transformation since Air Canada's privatization nearly three decades ago. It acknowledges that Air Canada is a fully private sector company, owned by private sector interests, operating in a highly competitive global industry.

Air Canada is a significant contributor to the Canadian economy and one of its largest employers. Last year, we flew nearly 42 million passengers to more than 200 destinations in Canada, the US and around the world. We employ close to 28,000 people—33,000 if you include our regional partners Jazz, Sky Regional and Air Georgian—and support approximately 30,000 pensioners. Salaries and benefits paid by Air Canada in Canada exceed $2.1 billion, and our total operational expenses in this country are close to $10 billion.

Let me start with a few words on the privatization of Air Canada in 1988-1989.

The company was sold to private investors over two years in two public offerings. The Government of Canada received gross proceeds of about $500 million for its shares, which would be about $2 billion in today's dollars. Air Canada derives no ongoing benefits from its prior crown corporation status that would put us in a privileged position vis–à–vis our competitors or for which the Canadian taxpayer hasn't been appropriately paid, none. We receive no subsidies, we have no protected monopoly routes, we have no privileged access to airports or facilities, we get no tax breaks, etc.

I will say a few words also on the evolution of the industry and the competitive landscape. During the first half of the 1990s, the airline industry experienced a worldwide recession, the Gulf War, 9/11, extreme fuel cost volatility, and other adverse geopolitical and economic events. A number of airlines went bankrupt, ceased operations, merged, or restructured. Air Canada went through its own court-supervised restructuring in 2003-2004, which, among other things, resulted in the sale of its heavy maintenance operations.

Low-cost carriers—virtually all of whom outsource aircraft maintenance—also emerged over the last 20 years. Canada's own WestJet launched in 1996 and today operates with about 40% market share domestically, without any restrictions or obligations whatsoever under its constating documents regarding where it performs maintenance or how many jobs it should directly or indirectly protect.

The competitive landscape intensified in other ways too. Today, we have open skies agreements with close to 50 countries, including the United States and the 28 countries of the European Union. More than 70 foreign airlines fly to Canada, competing for our customers.

Legacy carriers around the world have been forced to radically change to survive and prosper, and despite all this change, profit margins in the industry are razor-thin, ranging since 2008 from negative 5% to 4%-5% profit in a good year. Carriers have had to significantly contain costs and capital investments, including those for maintenance, repair, and overhaul.

Turning to maintenance specifically, until the 1980s, network airlines such as Air Canada generally insourced all aircraft maintenance. The maintenance, repair, and overhaul business—so-called MRO—was not the independent and competitive industry it has now become.

Maintenance typically represents 10%-15% of an airline's costs, and it's one of the largest cost buckets. Outsourcing certain activities to qualified MROs around the world, which actively compete for this work, has become a normal, healthy, and essential development in our capital-intensive, highly competitive, and low-margin business.

A report prepared for the IATA found MRO outsourcing worldwide has grown from approximately 30% in 1990 to 65% in 2013, and the trend is projected to increase. It is estimated that outsourcing could reach 80%.

When Aveos was created out of Air Canada's 2003-04 restructuring, independent institutions invested $975 million to acquire Aveos with the objective of building a platform which could attract other airlines besides Air Canada. However, Aveos repeatedly failed to diversify with other airlines. In the 2012 court filings, the company itself said it never achieved the cost efficiencies or productivity of its global competitors. Fundamentally, this is why it failed.

After this failure, Air Canada relocated its heavy maintenance work to other qualified maintenance companies in Canada and around the world. Our aircraft utilization has since improved significantly, with reduced maintenance turn-around times and lower maintenance costs.

MROs today compete globally for an airline's heavy maintenance business based on centres of excellence, not regional work. To be globally relevant, these businesses must maintain significant capital investment in areas that are non-core for airlines, such as equipment, tooling, licences, R and D, etc. Starting a new MRO business without significant third party business would not be realistic. Our own Air Canada line maintenance labour force has more than doubled over the last 10 years. Today we employ approximately 2,400 maintenance employees in Canada, plus more than 1,000 at our regional partners—Jazz, Air Georgian, and Sky Regional. This is far more than at any other airline in Canada, and we ourselves regularly perform in this fashion many specialized maintenance tasks that would previously have been performed in a heavy maintenance environment.

While we have sent some of our heavy maintenance abroad since Aveos closed, we've also significantly increased the volumes of work outsourced to companies in Canada. Premier Aviation in Trois-Rivières performs airframe maintenance for our Embraer fleet. Avianor in Mirabel undertakes aircraft conversions and other maintenance work on several fleet types. Airbase in Montreal performs cabin equipment and other interior maintenance. Hope Aero in Toronto overhauls wheels, brakes, and batteries. These latter two suppliers will soon establish activities in Winnipeg as well. Jazz maintenance for our regional fleet is performed in Halifax, Calgary, and Prince Edward Island. All this work employs thousands of Canadians and, in an open economy with a private sector employer, competition rather than statutory prescription is the way to create and sustain jobs.

Bill C-10 acknowledges the changes in the industry and provides the greater flexibility and certainty of interpretation Air Canada requires to compete globally. Air Canada will be able to determine, at its commercial discretion, the volume and type of aircraft maintenance it does globally and in Canada, including the work done in Manitoba, Quebec, and Ontario, and who performs this work, based on competitive proposals from suppliers.

No other airline in Canada—and to our knowledge no other airline in the world—is subject to maintenance restrictions such as those imposed on Air Canada by the act—not WestJet, Porter, Air Transat, Sunwing, British Airways, Air France, American, United, Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, etc. These airlines make their decisions based on the competitiveness of the quality and pricing of the services contracted and their turnaround times. We expect the same flexibility to use our business judgment, because at the end of the day we compete in the same markets for the same customers.

We have concluded settlement agreements with the Government of Quebec and the Government of Manitoba, which should create more aerospace maintenance jobs in Canada. We have agreed to collaborate to help establish centres of excellence in each of these provinces, which should be capable of attracting work from other airlines if competitive. GE, among others, has created such centres of excellence around the world to bring together people with particular expertise to focus on and improve specific products or processes through research and sharing best practices.

Another very tangible result of Air Canada being internationally competitive is our LOI to purchase the Bombardier C Series aircraft. We are proud to be the first major North American carrier to order the C Series, and we believe it sent an important signal to the market that gave other airlines, notably Delta Air Lines, the confidence to purchase this next generation aircraft.

At list prices, our order is valued at $3.8 billion for the firm order alone. This is a substantial commitment to the C Series, and to Canadian aerospace which will continue to employ thousands of aerospace workers, based on orders such as ours.

The ACPPA was adopted over a quarter century ago, in the context of an air travel industry that was completely different. Hindsight is 20/20, and I mean no disrespect to its framers when I say that it should have accounted for the possibility the industry would change, even if it was not possible to anticipate all eventualities.

Madam Chair, thank you for your attention. Air Canada is committed to the aerospace industry in this country. By creating a more level playing field, Bill C-10 will allow us to remain competitive and support job creation in the aviation, tourism and aerospace industries in Canada well into the future.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your attention.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, sir. We appreciate the fact that you went through that very quickly.

I now turn to Ms. Block for six minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I will be sharing my time with my colleague, Mr. Berthold.

I'd also like to thank our witnesses for being here.

First I'd like to move my motion, which I submitted to the clerk on Monday evening and circulated to members yesterday afternoon. I'd like to read my motion into the record, as it does pertain to this study.

That the Committee request from Transport Canada and the Privy Council Office any briefing notes prepared for Minister of Transport Marc Garneau for his meetings with Air Canada representatives on February 15, 2016, and December 15, 2015, and for Mathieu Bouchard (Senior Advisor, Prime Minister’s Office) for his meetings with Air Canada representatives on February 3, 2016, January 27, 2016, January 8, 2016, and December 15, 2015, and that the Committee also request any briefing notes to the Minister of Transport that served as a guide for drafting Bill C-10, An Act to amend the Air Canada Public Participation Act and to provide for certain other measures.

Quite simply, Madam Chair, the Minister of Transport was asked on three separate occasions on Monday whether he would provide any briefing materials from his department that informed his decision. The first time I asked, I didn't receive an answer. The other two times we received the following two responses.

The first was “I think the recommendations that came from the department have made their way into the act as it is proposed and which you are studying at this committee at the moment.”

The second was “If you would give us the dates that you mentioned formally”.

According to the minister's testimony on Monday, he or a member of his staff remarked that Air Canada was negotiating a settlement with the Government of Quebec and the Government of Manitoba and decided that this was the right time to introduce and pass legislation that would protect Air Canada from future litigation. To say that this legislation came as a surprise to all the maintenance workers present here today would be an understatement.

My intent in introducing this motion is to find out whether the minister received a single briefing note from his department recommending this option. I'd like to find out whether Transport Canada did a financial analysis of the impact of this bill before it was introduced in Parliament, because when asked by the Liberal member from Central Nova on Monday to quantify the benefits Air Canada will gain from this legislation, again the minister responded by saying, “It's a good question. It's one I would have to get back to you on. I think it's a big, serious question and I don't have the answer at my fingertips, but we'll look into that.”

The minister's lack of response to such a basic question makes me wonder whether his own department has provided him with any advice or recommendations on this matter. This motion aims to get the necessary background to Parliament as we review this bill. I hope that all members of this committee will vote in support of this motion.

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Rovinescu and Mr. Howlette, thank you for being here today.

Ms. Block just spoke about meetings between Air Canada and the government.

The fact that a bill like Bill C-10 is being put forward certainly corresponds to a request that Air Canada has had in its files for a very long time.

In the past few years, particularly since October 2015, which senior government officials have you spoken to about this situation?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

Thank you for the question.

As you said so clearly, we have been suggesting that the Air Canada Public Participation Act be amended, if not repealed, for a fairly long time. I have here a document we tabled on February 15, 2015, before the committee chaired by Mr. Emerson. The purpose of the document was to review the amendments to the Canada Transportation Act. Our proposal read as follows:

Today, many of the obligations contained in the Air Canada Public Participation Act are outdated and fail to recognize the increased competition in the market, as well as other new realities, such as changes as to how aircraft are maintained. The act never included a sunset provision to address this—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

I'm sorry for interrupting you, Mr. Rovinescu, but since I don't have much time left, I will read the document instead.

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

All that to say that we have been expressing this desire for a very long time. We spoke about it with the governments of Quebec and Manitoba, as well as with the federal government.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Has the matter been addressed by representatives of the federal government and Air Canada since last October?

3:50 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

Certainly since last October. Our people indicated that our preference was that the act be repealed.

Every time the Emerson Report was mentioned, we raised this issue with the three levels of government.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Rovinescu.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would also like to thank the witnesses for being here today.

The brief presented by Air Canada as part of the study on the Canada Transportation Act states that the Canadian internal market was relatively saturated and that significant growth meant that we would have to court and attract international traffic.

Air Canada competes with dozens of other foreign airlines to attract international travellers. What would the main competitive factors be in the airline industry?

3:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

I'm sorry; I didn't understand the question.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

What would the main competitive factors be in the airline industry?

3:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

There are many. It depends on our networks. In the past few years, we have build fairly powerful networks for our vital niches, such as Montreal-Toronto and Calgary-Vancouver. That's one aspect of competitiveness.

A second aspect is certainly cost, including labour costs and maintenance time for airplanes. How we manage the costs is very important. The most successful companies in the world, like Singapore Airlines, are the ones that are the most profitable.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

How is Air Canada's international competitiveness affected by the Air Canada Public Participation Act?

3:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

The act creates a certain obligation that our competitors are not subject to, be they Canadian companies like WestJet, Porter or Sunwing, or international companies like British Airways, Air France or Cathay Pacific.

These few restrictions and obligations eliminate the capacity to offer competitive prices around the world, which has affected us for several years.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

To what extent, if any, would the amendments being proposed to the Air Canada Public Participation Act make the company more or less competitive on international markets?

3:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

I must be very clear with you. This isn't an ideal solution. Ideally, this act should be repealed and we should ensure that we have exactly the same conditions as all of our competitors. That would move us substantially closer to our goal, which is to have a level playing field.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

I forgot to say that I share—

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Mr. Sikand, you have three minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Thank you for being here.

With regard to Air Canada's flight routes, which have the most volume?

3:55 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada

Calin Rovinescu

Right now the ones that have the most volume in terms of.... We look at it either in terms of revenue or in terms of available seat miles, and historically they have been the domestic routes, but in the last number of years our large growth has been in the international markets.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Is that in terms of—