Transport Committee on Oct. 16th, 2018

[Nancy Healey]

Yes, we have, quite vehemently. We have met with the premier and several ministers to express our concerns with respect to the carbon tax. We have asked for the details as to what the province plans and what it is proposing to Ottawa as a solution, and that has not been provided to us. Subsequently, we submitted an access to information request to get that. If this is to be implemented on January 1, my members have less than two and a half months to prepare for what these changes are going to be.

We know from the research we've received that if we follow the Alberta model, every household can expect a $750 to $850 bill on top of what they already do.

We're concerned that this is a tax grab. I heard some speculation over the weekend from a former prime minister that since the government couldn't increase the HST, it's using a carbon tax as a way to generate revenue. I'd like to see a cost-benefit analysis for how much it expects GHG emissions to go down in this province for each $10 per tonne it puts on. We don't have that information. As I said, we've met with the finance minister, the minister of natural resources, the minister of environment, and the premier, and unfortunately we do not have the details. We're quite disappointed. We need to look to the federal government now, which is reviewing our province's plan, to assess the vulnerabilities in the Newfoundland and Labrador economy and how the carbon tax will impact it.

[David Tilson]

Has the provincial government given you any indication that it will provide you, with respect to the request you've made, information as to the effect of the carbon tax? Obviously—

[Nancy Healey]

So far the—

[David Tilson]

I'd like to just finish. I'm sorry. There is obviously going to be a time limit by the federal government. We'll be having an election some time next year, and there's no question that they're going to be putting pressure on the provincial government.

Have you had any indication as to whether the provincial government will provide you with the information you've quite reasonably requested?

[Nancy Healey]

No.

[David Tilson]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Mr. Tilson.

We'll go now to Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair. I do want to thank the witnesses for being here this morning.

First off, I want to make a comment with respect to the carbon pricing. I think we shouldn't make any mistake about it. Carbon taxes, or whatever you want to call them, already exist because the cost of pollution is already defaulted to the taxpayers throughout this nation. What this carbon pricing is attempting to do is actually alleviate the pressure on taxpayers by ensuring that those who create pollution pay for the creation of it.

With that said, my recommendation to the St. John's Board of Trade is to have that discussion with the province so the proper investments by the province, whether it be through a cash or infrastructure investment with respect to pollution-related costs, would be made.

However, that's not what we're here to talk about. We're here to talk about trade corridors. When we look at the fluidity of trade corridors, I have to ask Mr. Picard a question with respect to the movement of trade in your Atlantic part of the country.

We have been to the west, we are in the central, and we're trying to move out to the east ASAP. While you are here, I want to start that conversation now.

With respect to the bottlenecks, the first question is, where do you see bottlenecks? The second question is with respect to intermodal opportunities. I think you mentioned Highway 55.

[Jean-Marc Picard]

Highway 185.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

You mentioned Highway 185.

What dialogue can happen with your intermodal partners to ensure the logistics and distribution system is further integrated? What investments do you see having to be made, besides that highway that you mentioned, to in fact ensure and/or encourage that?

[Jean-Marc Picard]

We meet regularly with the Port of Halifax, for example, which is in a growth mode right now. They have some serious issues with products moving out of that Halterm terminal. Probably 25% moves by truck, and it moves downtown probably for a dozen kilometres to the highway, so it's causing some major anxiety among city officials, obviously the communities, and all that, when they see 200, 300, 400 trucks going on the waterfront every day. That's number one.

They are investigating some options to alleviate that, whether it's to rail everything to a major yard, and then beyond there it's going to be trucked or railed again. They're looking at moving containers intermodally to Moncton and then trucking from there.

They are investigating those options today. We are part of those discussions to make sure that it's a fair and level playing field for everyone. That's the first part.

Highway 185 is probably key with all this because there are 41 kilometres that are not fully twinned.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Is that a Canadian national highway, or is it a binational highway where it goes into the States?

[Jean-Marc Picard]

No. It's in Quebec. It connects New Brunswick and Quebec. It's the only part of the highway that's not four lanes from Halifax to Toronto.

That small stretch stops us from moving long combination vehicles which are the 53-foot double trailers you see on the roads. Whenever you move those you have to de-buckle when you arrive at that first part of the highway and then re-buckle again to one trailer when you've done that 40 kilometres. It's very time-consuming, but carriers are doing it today because it's still more efficient than putting two trailers on the road from Halifax to Toronto.

Once that's fully twinned, the movement of goods is going to be changed dramatically, as is the landscape of our industry, to say the least.

Obviously, the only thing I can say about the containers out of Halifax is the bottleneck in the city is really the number one priority right now because Halterm, for example, wants to accommodate larger vessels, more volume, and they are going to have to find some solutions, especially from a truck standpoint.

From a rail standpoint, I don't think there are any issues. The rail service there has improved from CN Rail in the last few years. They have made some big investments there. There's a change of focus on eastern Canada, especially out of Halifax, so we're seeing some improvements there, and in Moncton as well.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

That discussion is happening, Mr. Picard, with respect to the groups breaking out of their silos and working together to further integrate the distribution logistics regionally—

[Jean-Marc Picard]

Yes.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

—but equally as important so that it is streamlined nationally.

[Jean-Marc Picard]

We've initiated a lot of those discussions with Quebec and Ontario with regard to Highway 185. For the port of Halifax, well, obviously Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have a huge interest in that as well, because a majority of the carriers handling the products out of Halifax are from New Brunswick or Nova Scotia. We meet about four or five times a year to try to stay on top of this. At the same time, we have to stay focused on our other issues—driver shortage, e-logs and all those things.

So yes, all the premiers in eastern Canada have been aware of those initiatives and those concerns. Hopefully, we'll get things moving, especially for Highway 185.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Picard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank our guests for joining us.

I will begin with you, Mr. Picard.

Since the beginning of this study, thanks to the testimony heard and the visits we made, we have been able to see the pivotal role played by the trucking industry.

When each port proposes to make improvements to its infrastructure to be able to do more with it, it must be ensured that the chain continues all the way to the end. Yet, according to figures provided by the Canadian Trucking Alliance, the average age of truckers is about 48. As a result, by 2024, there could be a shortage of as many as 48,000 truckers in Canadian industry.

In this strategy to increase fluidity in the transportation of goods, what is the first problem that should be addressed? Is it the shortage of truckers? If there are no truckers and ports increase their capacity, gridlock will still arise.

[Jean-Marc Picard]

That doesn't only apply to ports.

The main issue has to do with drivers. I would say that their average age, in the Atlantic region, is closer to 52.

We are trying to develop strategies in collaboration with immigration officials. Our association hired a person in the past whose only role was to go to schools to talk to students about our industry, about available jobs and about places to get training to become a truck driver. We are trying to make it easier for people who would like to get that training in order to have a job in our industry. We are using all means available to resolve this issue, but progress is slow.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I don't doubt in the slightest that your industry is doing everything it can, considering that its growth depends on it.

The chamber of commerce representative talked about flying schools and the pilot shortage. Are there any specific measures you would like the federal government to take to help you address the labour shortage?

[Jean-Marc Picard]

If the federal government were to provide financial support for training or subsidize training courses to help us quickly create a pool of ready-to-hire workers, we certainly wouldn't be opposed to it.

It goes further than that, however. The trucking industry is unique, and the work isn't for everyone. Companies are beginning to adapt to the young people looking to join the industry by offering them accommodations, such as sending them on the road for less than two weeks at a time—two or three days, for instance. Wages are also starting to go up.

Some clients don't even ask carriers the rate they charge. Instead, they want to know whether the carrier has drivers available to transport their goods. They aren't even trying to negotiate the rate. The rate will be whatever it will be. What they really care about is whether the carrier has drivers available. That's where things stand right now. This is unprecedented in the industry.

Product costs will go up significantly if the industry isn't able to hire enough drivers.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Does this new approach to recruit workers include any measures that could help increase the percentage of women truckers?

[Jean-Marc Picard]

A lot is being done to try to attract women and young people to the industry. This is all new for us. We aren't turning anyone away. Our human resources council, in Nova Scotia, has some excellent programs to attract women to the industry. In our region, we are starting to see the numbers go up. I know efforts are being made nationally as well.

Our best drivers are 71-year-old males. That isn't reasonable. We really need a major change in the efforts to recruit new blood.