Evidence of meeting #115 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airports.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Does the measure change for airplane noise or is it all in decibels?
10:25 a.m.
Ph.D. Candidate, University of Windsor, As an Individual
It's usually in a cumulative metric. In Canada, aircraft noise does use a particular cumulative metric, the NEF. However, other places in the world have opted out of that and have determined that Lden or Ldn is better.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
I have limited time.
You said that we're more susceptible to lower levels of noise or that we're becoming more sensitive. Would the sound from the humming of a drone fall within that?
10:25 a.m.
Ph.D. Candidate, University of Windsor, As an Individual
I can't speculate on that. I assume it might for any individual. It becomes a question of particular preferences.
10:25 a.m.
Matt Jeneroux Edmonton Riverbend, CPC
Welcome to the committee, and thank you for being here today.
I think I know the contradiction that we're essentially facing.
I'm from Edmonton, and there's an airport that's a fair distance from the downtown and a number of residential homes. Even though it's expanding, it's still a fair distance from residential properties. The complaint that we often hear in Edmonton is why we don't have an airport that's closer to the city. There are certain flight paths that go over my riding. However, I wouldn't say the noise is something that I hear to the extent that, perhaps, some of my colleagues are hearing. That's certainly something the analysts will have identified already in terms of the contradiction of the study.
I do hope there's some data out there, and I'm hoping you, as witnesses, are able to point us to where we can find that data. Currently, airports have regulations that try to address the noise, for example, airplanes flying at a certain angle, they have to be at certain altitudes; their descent and so on and so forth. Are there consequences if those aren't followed? Are pilots penalized? From your experience, what happens if those things aren't followed?
10:30 a.m.
Ph.D. Candidate, University of Windsor, As an Individual
When there are operational infringements that go against best practices that might be established by the airport specifically, or Nav Canada, these infringements, when reported, are investigated by the proper authorities and a fine may be determined to be appropriate.
10:30 a.m.
Edmonton Riverbend, CPC
Do we have data on how many people are being fined, how many of these consequences are...?
10:30 a.m.
Ph.D. Candidate, University of Windsor, As an Individual
I can't speak for all Canadian airports, but I know the GTAA publishes an annual report on how many complaints were received, how many complaints were investigated for infringement, how many of those investigations resulted in a fine, etc.
10:30 a.m.
Edmonton Riverbend, CPC
Those would be specific airports reporting on that.
I anticipate our report is going to provide a recommendation to Transport Canada. If the recommendation is that we track this at the Transport Canada national level for each airport, is that the information we should be advising Transport Canada to track?
10:30 a.m.
Ph.D. Candidate, University of Windsor, As an Individual
You bring up a very interesting dilemma, because currently, accountability is kind of broad and diluted, and is somewhat unclear and not easily followed. I've studied other countries around the world with respect to this issue, and I find it easier to summarize their practices than Canada's. Canada, as it stands currently, does not have a coherent methodology in one, collecting data across all major airports, and two, communicating it in a clear and effective manner to all stakeholders, so that they could facilitate for a collaborative process to manage or address the issue. If you don't have the information, there's very little you can do to manage the issue, right?
10:30 a.m.
Edmonton Riverbend, CPC
So, airports would have the information, or are we talking about airlines?
10:30 a.m.
Ph.D. Candidate, University of Windsor, As an Individual
Airports collect a certain extent of the information through noise-monitoring terminals. They know what their expectations are in terms of volumes and types of aircraft. But, in countries like Australia, for example, the federal government takes a very active role at consolidating this information, making sure that all airports report it on a regular basis, and that it's reported in a way that is clear.
10:30 a.m.
Edmonton Riverbend, CPC
Mr. Isaac, have you received a response to your petition? Unfortunately, it didn't meet the 500 threshold, but did you receive a response from the minister on your petition?
10:30 a.m.
As an Individual
No, not really. We didn't get anything there.
On the subject of Nav Canada, which you just addressed, I don't think Nav Canada is doing a proper job there in consideration of the citizens. They just avoid the problem.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you, Mr. Isaac.
We have a few minutes for Mr. Graham.
It's Mr. Badawey's time that you have. He's in a generous mood today.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I appreciate that. Thank you.
As just a quick note, Mr. Jeneroux, the answer to your question is that most of these airports operate in what we call class C airspace. If you violate something in a significant way, the tower will give you a phone number to call and that means you're in really deep trouble.
We're talking about airplane noise and I'm trying to tie that into the drones. Where are we on passenger-carrying drones?
10:30 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Terranova International Public Safety Canada (Terranova Aerospace)
Very soon...it's already happening in a number of Middle Eastern countries, Arab countries, including Dubai. Also, Uber Air is really about passenger drones, which is why drone safety is as important to us as the same safety regulations that we have for passenger-carrying aircraft, because they will soon be one and the same.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
10:35 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Terranova International Public Safety Canada (Terranova Aerospace)
I would say that if we all require licences to operate aircraft, drive cars and drive boats, why shouldn't we have licensing to operate a drone?
To go back to the previous point about compliance issues, the challenge with having regulations is then, of course, the enforcement challenge. We've seen that with Transport Canada. There's significant opportunity for ensuring enforcement across all sectors, including law enforcement.
Currently, some drone fines can be up to $50,000. I live next to Billy Bishop airport along the lake in Toronto. I also live next to a park. I see drones flying all the time recreationally. I also hear a lot of noise that could be better managed.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC
You mentioned blockchain as a method of distributing. We already have mode S transponders. Is there any intent to put mode S transponders in every drone in the sky? The noise of a plane and a drone colliding is quite high, which does tie into this study.
10:35 a.m.
Senior Vice-President, Terranova International Public Safety Canada (Terranova Aerospace)
Exactly, and on the same frequency, which is part of the safety issue, so yes, absolutely.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you, witnesses. We appreciate your contribution today.
I would ask that you to exit the room, as we need to go in camera for committee business for a few minutes.
Thank you very much.
[Proceedings continue in camera]