Evidence of meeting #36 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was drones.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Doug Johnson  Vice-President, Technology Policy, Consumer Technology Association
Stephen Wilcox  Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council
Laureen Kinney  Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Commissioner Byron Boucher  Assistant Commissioner, Contract and Aboriginal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Aaron McCrorie  Director Genral, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Sergeant David Domoney  Staff Sergeant, National Traffic Services , Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Mark Wuennenberg  General Flight Standards Inspector, Department of Transport

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, 42nd Parliament, 1st Session, Meeting No. 36.

Thank you very much to our witnesses for coming and to committee members for being here this morning.

We're continuing our study under Standing Order 108(2) on unmanned aerial vehicle regulations—drones, as we all know them.

We have Doug Johnson, vice-president, technology policy, for Consumer Technology Association, and by video conference, Stephen Wilcox, airport manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, for the Canadian Airports Council.

Welcome to you both. Thank you very much for spending some time with us today.

I will ask Mr. Johnson to start.

8:50 a.m.

Doug Johnson Vice-President, Technology Policy, Consumer Technology Association

Madam Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you this morning.

CTA is the trade association representing the $386 billion consumer technology industry. Our members include 2,200 companies, 80% of which are start-ups and small businesses, as well as more than 160 companies in Canada.

Much like the association itself, our drone policy working group reflects a diverse group of both large and small companies, including component suppliers, drone manufacturers, retailers, and service providers.

We're active on drone-related matters in several areas, including public policy, market research, consumer education, and industry standards.

As a champion of innovation, CTA has been a long-time advocate of clear rules authorizing drone use in the national airspace. In general, we believe it is important that Canada strike the appropriate risk-based balance in developing rules that support innovation and safety, with benefits to consumers and commerce.

CTA has been working with various stakeholders, including legislators and regulators in the U.S., to advance the drone industry, address safety and privacy issues, and promote the safe and beneficial use of drones.

In the U.S., CTA has partnered with the Federal Aviation Administration, or FAA, on the Know Before You Fly campaign to educate consumers on the safe operation of drones. Last year we served on the FAA's registration task force charged with developing consensus recommendations to the FAA on the registration of drones. Earlier this year, we served on the FAA's micro-UAS aviation rule-making committee, which developed consensus recommendations regarding drone flights over people.

CTA also supported the first permanent rules regarding commercial drone operations in the U.S., which took effect this past summer.

Rules regarding drone operations should embody a risk-based approach to integrating drones into the national airspace in order to maximize safety, utility, and economic benefit. Each rule, restriction, and requirement should reflect the appropriate amount of risk to that activity and then balance that risk with the associated benefits of that activity.

Rules for drones also should be flexible, for rapid technological innovation. To ensure that new drone-related technological developments are not stymied, drone rules must allow for sufficient flexibility and innovation, particularly for the small drones that constitute the vast majority of consumer and commercial operations.

At the same time, policy-makers should maintain a degree of control that is appropriate to the risk involved. When the risk is low, policy-makers should let innovation and experimentation flourish.

Already there are many hardware- and software-related examples of technological innovation supporting safety in drones and drone operations, but we must be careful to avoid mandating specific technological solutions at the expense of future safety-related developments or alternatives.

Regarding recent regulatory proposals for drones under consideration in Canada, our members have expressed concerns in a couple of areas. One concern is the proposed insurance requirement mandate for all UAVs. The other concern is the proposal to lower the regulatory category weight threshold for very small, low-risk drone operations from two kilograms down to one kilogram.

We are aware that regulatory alignment initiatives are under way between the Canadian and U.S. governments in several industrial sectors and topic areas, which are certainly important, given the significance of trade between the U.S. and Canada.

Regarding drone policy and recognizing the market response and industry support for the rules that took effect in the U.S. last summer, we would support Canada's careful consideration of regulatory alignment opportunities with what is already in place in the U.S.

As we head into 2017, one of our biggest challenges related to drone policy is with regulation at the local level.

Our industry is committed to a coordinated policy-making process between the public and private sectors. In the U.S., the FAA has reminded and educated state and local officials about the federal government's exclusive jurisdiction over drone safety, flight altitudes, flight paths, and no-fly zones.

Our members are concerned that misaligned and conflicting local rules could lead to a sloppy patchwork of mandates that restrict entrepreneurs and start-ups, stifle job creation, and confuse professional and recreational drone users.

Drones will change our lives for the better, providing quick delivery of supplies and medicine, enabling better crop production and efficiency, and allowing for safer inspection and maintenance of our infrastructure.

According to an AUVSI study, the U.S. drones market is driving the creation of more than 100,000 jobs over the next decade.

CTA forecasts U.S. drone sales will reach record heights by the end of this year, topping 2.4 million units—that's up 112% from 2015—and $1 billion in shipment revenues, which is up 80% compared with 2015.

With accompanying services, the drones market could easily exceed $1.3 billion within five years, and given the right policy environment, which includes balanced rules, stakeholder collaboration, and consumer education initiatives, we could see over a million UAV flights per day in North America by 2025.

Thank you again for the opportunity to appear here this morning. I look forward to any questions you may have.

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

Mr. Wilcox, the floor is yours.

8:50 a.m.

Stephen Wilcox Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council

Good morning. Thank you for this opportunity to present to you.

My name is Stephen Wilcox. I'm the airport manager at the Oshawa Executive Airport and a commercial pilot. I also serve as the vice-president of the Airport Management Council of Ontario, and I have been on its board since 2007.

Today I am here representing the Canadian Airports Council. CAC has 50 members and represents over 100 airports across Canada. I am here today because we have a deep concern with the proliferation of UAVs operating in and around airspace. The UAV, the drone you see in front of me here on my desk, was picked up off the departure end of our active runway less than two months ago.

We understand that the Government of Canada is working on new regulations for UAVs, which is something we have been advocating for. As airports, we have a vested interest in how UAVs are introduced into airport traffic, as we'll need to invest in the infrastructure to support them. To this end, we need to be included in the planning and preparation of regulations and standards for their development and operation.

Transport Canada currently stipulates for safety purposes that operators not fly their UAVs within at least nine kilometres—that's five miles—from an airport or aerodrome, in order to remain clear of manned aircraft and most control zones. All aerodromes should be considered “no drone zones” if an operator does not have permission from Transport Canada or the airport operator.

What has CAC done? CAC wrote a letter to Minister Garneau a year ago. It was co-signed by a coalition of over a dozen associations in Canada. This included the Air Transportation Association of Canada, the Helicopter Association of Canada, and a number of provincial aviation councils.

We wrote about the need for a comprehensive regulatory framework for the safe and efficient operation of UAVs. It's important that this framework promote the safety of all aircraft sharing the national airspace system. Safe skies can only be ensured through comprehensive aircraft performance standards, compliant and compatible equipment, and standardized operating procedures, so that UAVs can be seen by pilots in their aircraft and by controllers on their displays.

At present, there is a limited coordination among the regulator, airspace operator, and enforcement agencies. Enforcement agencies currently lack clear regulations to enforce. Airports already serve a coordinating role in their communities. They are a recipient for complaints from aircraft noise as well as UAVs. In particular, we believe airports can assist the Government of Canada with the regulations it is developing so that all concerns are addressed. Airports have already done some work to raise awareness of the need to keep UAVs out of the airspace.

Last June we joined Minister Garneau for the launch of the national safety campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of UAVs. The minister unveiled the “no drone zone” sign to remind users to operate only in approved areas.

The no-drone signs were distributed to federally operated airports to promote the safe operation of drones. The signs were then further distributed across our various networks to multiple airports in Canada. Many have since posted the no-drone signs at and around their airports.

While these signs help deter users, we respectfully suggest that there should be an even greater effort by the Government of Canada to educate distributors, retailers, and purchasers of UAVs on the requirements and responsibilities of owning these aircraft systems.

Linking all of these aircraft with their owners through a registration and marking process is important for accountability and to facilitate the reporting of defects and operational difficulties. In this way, the UAV owner and operator can be held accountable for his or her operation of the aircraft. Without an identification process, the owner of the UAV could simply leave the scene of an accident or an incident and avoid any responsibility for his or her behaviour.

We expect UAVs to become increasingly common in our airspace, and it's imperative that we keep Canada's airspace safe.

Another primary issue related to this is runaway, uncontrolled drones. We need to have a process to deal with that. Again, here is a great example on my desk this morning. We had no ability to speak with the operator so that he could understand what he may or may not have been doing correctly.

I thank you this morning. I'm pleased to take any questions you may have.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Mr. Wilcox, could I ask you to stand up so that we could get a better look at the drone that's in front of you? We can see two ends of it.

8:55 a.m.

Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council

Stephen Wilcox

Does that help?

It's not a large drone, but if we remember our high school math, there was something to do with velocity and energy and mass, and you can imagine something this small hitting an aircraft at 200-plus miles an hour.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

We'll go on to questions, with Mr. Berthold first, for six minutes.

November 29th, 2016 / 8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Many thanks to the witnesses for coming to enlighten us about drones this morning.

I have a lot of questions to ask and my six minutes will certainly not be enough.

Let me begin with Mr. Wilcox, of the Canadian Airports Council.

I have a few questions about the proliferation of drones. Is the drone in front of you the only incident you have had to deal with since drones have become more common, as you said?

8:55 a.m.

Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council

Stephen Wilcox

No, speaking through you, Madam Chair, it's not. We see a large number of drones, and as airports we're the recipient of information. We receive, certainly on a weekly basis, inquiries about where to operate drones.

We see anything, of course, that is on our airfield. This one happened to be picked up in a routine inspection of the runway, and as I said, it was on the departure end of the runway. We've also had reports of near misses in and around our airspace, as well as calls regarding drone operations—not from the operator, but from individuals around the airport.

We are seeing in an increase in the nature of drone operations, absolutely.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

To be more specific about what is happening, do you keep a record of incidents involving drones?

9 a.m.

Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council

Stephen Wilcox

Within airports we have a system called the safety management system. Essentially we write down everything we do, we do everything we write down, and we track absolutely everything that occurs, so the answer is yes, we have a record of all inquiries. We have a record of any issues for us at the airport specifically. As well, such things as the near misses would be reported to Transport Canada, as would this drone issue on the airport.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

As a representative of the Canadian Airports Council, can you send the committee a list of the incidents involving drones in the past two years, and the context of those incidents? That could be very informative and help us with our study and with the recommendations we will be making.

9 a.m.

Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council

Stephen Wilcox

What I would like to do is assemble that data looking at the airports across Canada. I think we can reach out to the public airports and see what issues they've had so that you get a comprehensive picture, recognizing again that this is a new field and that the data may vary.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Okay. That would be very interesting for the members of the committee.

You said that you wrote to the Minister of Transport, Mr. Garneau, a year ago. Can you send a copy of that letter to the committee?

9 a.m.

Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council

Stephen Wilcox

Certainly we can make that available to you.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Thank you.

How did the minister respond to that letter?

9 a.m.

Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council

Stephen Wilcox

Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of the response, as I was not part of the committee that submitted the letter.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Okay.

I will turn to Mr. Johnson now.

Drones represent a sector of economic growth and we welcome that growth. They raise issues of responsibility and safety, as we have heard from several witnesses. You are talking about making our regulations consistent with U.S. regulations. You have contributed a great deal to these regulations.

From what I can see initially, there are three kinds of drones. There are very small ones, which as I like to say are the kind that destroy the inside of a house and that children play with. There are the more commercial ones, used by amateur photographers. Finally, there are drones designed exclusively for business and transporting merchandise.

Do the U.S. regulations reflect these types or do they focus on the weight of the devices only?

9 a.m.

Vice-President, Technology Policy, Consumer Technology Association

Doug Johnson

Madam Chair, the approach to classifying drones has varied depending on the regulation in question. With regard to drone registration, for example, there is an exemption for drones weighing less than 250 grams, which really captures a lot of what we would commonly consider to be toy drones. Those don't need to be registered, and everything above that weight threshold up to about 25 kilos or 55 pounds does need to be registered.

The approach that was taken in the committee I referred to, which focused on drone flights over people, by and large categorized drones based on risk factors associated with impact energy, except for a very low category, which was weight-based, of 250 grams and below. As we considered the risks and issues related to drones flying over people, the key parameter really was impact energy. In its upcoming rule-making, the U.S. FAA will presumably take an approach whereby they specify impact energy levels and break out drones in different categories, all in the small UAS or UAF realm of 55 pounds and under.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

Mr. Sikand is next.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Thank you.

My question is for Mr. Wilcox.

I was speaking with someone from Pearson airport. They had an incident similar to yours in which they had a drone at the end of a departure runway and the planes had to immediately fly right. I'm glad you were able to bring that subject in.

I would like to know your thoughts on geofencing. I understand you want legislation in place for no-fly zones, but should we go one step further and just have the larger drones not possess the physical capabilities of even entering that airspace?

9:05 a.m.

Airport Manager, Oshawa Executive Airport, Canadian Airports Council

Stephen Wilcox

Thank you for that question.

There are a number of technologies to, shall we say, defend ourselves from drones at airports. Geofencing is one method, although my understanding is that it is possible to override the software that essentially creates the geofencing. There's also some technology now that can be installed that monitors airspace for intrusion of drones. Today it's limited to about one kilometre, whereas our approaches reach out to about nine kilometres.

The challenge really isn't with people operating the drones within the regulations. The challenge is the unintentional operation of the drones outside of the regulations. We will see, in the absence of information, people who simply aren't aware that the little park they're standing in is close to the approach for a runway. It's surprising how unaware people are of airplanes. That's one issue.

The greater one, of course, arises when the drone runs away. I don't believe for a minute that someone tried to park this drone on the runway. It just happened to be that this is where it ran out of energy when the batteries ran out. Ultimately, it likely just ran away from someone, and that's the big challenge that I think we need to deal with.

We need to make sure that people are aware, and I think we need to be able to register the drones so that we know who's operating them. We also need to create a non-punitive system so that the operator of a drone knows if, oops, it runs away, to pick up the phone, call Oshawa or a central number in Canada, and say “My drone just ran away” to let you guys know about it.

We know about obstacles in the airspace. We notify pilots. We do it all the time for ground-based cranes, for birds. I think making people aware and making sure we get notification when we have issues is going to do as much as geofencing. There is such a big footprint around an airport that even nine kilometres only begins to deal with the primary air operations.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

Thank you for your remarks.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Go ahead, Mr. Iacono.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Wilcox.

With regard to drones, what in your opinion is the most urgent issue?