Evidence of meeting #5 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rail.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Laureen Kinney  Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Jean-François Tremblay  Deputy Minister, Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, Department of Transport
André Lapointe  Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services, Department of Transport
Allison Padova  Committee Researcher

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

I call the meeting to order. This is the fifth meeting of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the mandate of the Minister of Transport.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), we are dealing with the main estimates 2016-17: vote 1 under Canadian Air Transport Security Authority; vote 1 under Canadian Transportation Agency; vote 1 under Marine Atlantic Inc.; votes 1, 5 and 10 under Office of Infrastructure of Canada; vote 1 under the Federal Bridge Corporation Limited; vote 1 under the Jacques-Cartier and Champlain Bridges Inc.; votes 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 under Transport; vote 1 under VIA Rail Canada Inc.; and vote 1 under Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority, referred to the committee on Tuesday, February 23, 2016.

The chair calls vote 1 under Canadian Air Transport Security Authority.

Minister Garneau, welcome. Congratulations on your new mandate. It's a very challenging one. I'm sure you have a wonderful committee that is more than prepared to work with you and your officials.

I wish to acknowledge that we also have with us Kate Young, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport.

Minister Garneau.

3:50 p.m.

Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount Québec

Liberal

Marc Garneau LiberalMinister of Transport

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Congratulations to you on your appointment as chair.

Thank you to the committee for inviting me here today to say a few words and to answer your questions.

I'm delighted to be accompanied by my deputy minister, Jean-François Tremblay. He will be the deputy minister until Sunday night, and then he will be transitioning, but he is my deputy minister today. Here as well are associate deputy minister Helena Borges, chief financial officer André Lapointe, and Laureen Kinney, who is the senior ADM for security and safety.

It is my pleasure to accept the committee's invitation to address my mandate letter, to present our main estimates, and to update the committee on several matters relating to transportation in Canada.

This is my first opportunity to appear before this committee since becoming Minister of Transport, and I do appreciate the committee's input on transportation issues.

I would like to begin by discussing my mandate letter from the Prime Minister. Really, it is the top level document that guides me.

In it he directed me to address several matters, three of which I would like to focus on today. First is the importance of improving the safety of our rail transportation system. Second is my initial response to the report of the Canada Transportation Act review. Third is the need to address marine safety, including oil tanker traffic off the north coast of British Columbia.

Allow me to expand and I'll begin with rail safety.

The first point I want to make is that safety will always be my priority in rail transportation. I'm certain that any minister of transport in any government would say exactly the same thing.

As a Quebecer, the accident in Lac-Mégantic in 2013 was for me, one of the worst events in Canadian transportation. I was recently there to meet the mayor and help open a new downtown reconstruction office.

In response to this tragedy, Transport Canada continues to strengthen regulation and enforcement of the safe operations of railways, specifically in transporting dangerous goods. This includes initiatives to improve transparency and share more information on the production, storage and transportation of dangerous goods in Canada.

In doing this work, I am especially focused on how communities and the public can be more engaged, informed and part of the decision making. I expect to be able, at a later date, to tell you more about the specific steps the government plans to take.

On the Canada Transportation Act review, I make no secret of the fact that I believe very strongly in the need for transportation to contribute to our economy.

One important way that the government can demonstrate its support for this commitment is through our response to the Canada Transportation Act Review.

Under the leadership of the Honourable David Emerson, the review looked 20 to 30 years down the road and suggested how government policy and initiatives across the transportation sector might most effectively help our transportation system to fuel Canada’s competitiveness in international trade.

You are probably aware that I received the report of the CTA review in December and I tabled it in Parliament on February 25, well ahead of the April 12 deadline. I did that because even though we are still studying this document, I wanted to get it out there so that interested groups would have the opportunity to look at it as early as possible. I wanted Canadians to see that report, even though our own analysis is ongoing.

We will follow this tabling with a substantial effort to hear from stakeholders across Canada about the review's findings. This will then allow us to propose initiatives to strengthen the transportation system and its contributions to our economy.

In particular, I intend, with the support of my colleague the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, to address issues regarding the Canadian grain transportation system. These actions will aim to achieve real change so that transportation in Canada can both capitalize on opportunities and meet the evolving needs of all Canadians.

These measures will also complement action we are taking to strengthen our use of research and analysis to build evidence-based transportation policy—policy that will help us to address growing pressures to broaden our trade relations, accelerate and expand open data initiatives, communicate our investments in infrastructure, take action on climate change, and finally, renew transportation partnerships with the United States and Mexico, with which we trade a great deal.

Let me talk about collaboration and transparency. Our approach to the CTA review demonstrates our commitment to strengthening collaboration and transparency in the federal government. As you know, responsibility for Canada's transportation system is shared between different jurisdictions. That's why we need to listen to and work with provincial and territorial governments, the private sector, and indigenous groups and communities to strengthen that system.

I had the pleasure of meeting with the 10 premiers and three ministers in the territorial governments responsible for transportation a little while back. They are now looking at the CTA review.

This is why, for example, in January I travelled to British Columbia to meet with indigenous peoples and other stakeholders. It was an opportunity to hear their perspectives about how government investments in transportation can support the economy while working to reduce their impact on the environment.

Achieving the right balance is important to me. While I see the transport portfolio very much as an economic portfolio, I realize that the transportation sector is the second largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in this country and we must explore ways to reduce its impact on our planet.

I would like to talk about marine safety and oil tankers. I intend to work with my colleagues the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs, and the Minister of Global Affairs to improve marine safety in our coastal waters.

In working with these ministers as well as with other members of cabinet, this will include taking measures to formalize a moratorium on crude oil tanker traffic on British Columbia's north coast, something to which the government is committed. It's clearly spelled out in my mandate letter.

Let me turn now to the main estimates.

Madam Chair, I would be happy to elaborate on these commitments in the question and answer period, but before closing, allow me to note two budgetary matters concerning Transport Canada.

The main estimates provides a listing of the resources required by the department for the upcoming fiscal year, at a point in time. It does not include funding that may be received within the fiscal year, most often related to items announced in the government’s budget.

Funding for budget items received by the department , if any, would be accessed through the supplementary estimates process, which, as you know, normally occurs three times each year, subsequent to the main estimates.

These could include funding for new programs or renewed funding of existing programs.

Our main estimates for 2016-17 total approximately $1.3 billion, which is a decrease of 21.6% from spending plans approved in the 2015-16 main estimates. Sunset funding for programs such as the ports asset transfer program, funding for programs that are winding down, such as the gateways and border crossings fund, and funding for the Detroit River international crossing project, which has since been transferred to Infrastructure Canada, are no longer included, or included at a lesser amount in this year's main estimates, and help to explain the decrease.

Finally, I'd like to say a word on grants and contributions changes. I should also note these estimates reflect changes that Transport Canada made to the vote structure for grants and contributions. I'd like to take a moment to explain this.

As you may know, parliamentary control of grants and contributions in federal bodies has been categorized by the type of expenditures—such as operating costs, capital, or grants and contributions—rather than by the program purposes of these expenditures.

In 2012, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates recommended that the Treasury Board Secretariat move from this current model to one based on program activity. Under this approach, the grants and contributions vote of organizations, such as Transport Canada, would be organized by programs, rather than by the type of expenditure. This is key. As such, expenditures would be categorized more by their aims than by how they fit into the structure of a federal body. For parliamentarians, this would provide more informed control over federal expenditures.

Based on this recommendation, Transport Canada has moved to put this new model into practice as a pilot to see how it functions for both parliamentarians and the department. As a result, we hope this kind of categorization will give you a better understanding of Transport Canada’s work.

Madam Chair, I believe the matters I have outlined today demonstrate the direction that Transport Canada is pursuing to keep transportation in this country safe, secure, efficient, and environmentally responsible.

I value input from this committee and I look forward to working with you to strengthen our transportation system and build a strong future for Canada.

That concludes my opening remarks, and I would now welcome your questions.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Garneau.

I appreciate that you're under 13 minutes out of your two-hour block of time. You have given the committee time for lots of interesting questions. Thank you very much.

We'll start with Ms. Block, for six minutes.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time with my colleague, Ms. Raitt. I will ask a couple of questions and then turn it over to her.

I want to welcome you, Minister, and your departmental officials. We appreciate your joining us today. Since this is your first visit to our committee in your role as minister, I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate you publicly on your appointment to this important portfolio.

Minister, one of the key files listed in your transition binder is the Ports Toronto's proposed Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport runway expansion. It's on page 171. The transition binder notes the airport is presently not certified under the “Aerodrome Standards and Recommended Practices”, TP 312, fifth edition, that were adopted in September 2015. Given the nature of the airport, adopting these standards is impossible.

My questions are these: What exemptions are you willing to allow Ports Toronto to have so they can meet these new regulatory standards? What information was withheld under access to information at the bottom of the page? Will the main runway need to be expanded to satisfy the new aerodrome standards and recommended practices your own department recommends?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

Thank you very much, Ms. Block, for your question, and thank you for your congratulations as well.

I will defer to my colleague, the ADM for safety and security, who will answer the question.

4:05 p.m.

Laureen Kinney Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Thank you very much for the question.

There are obviously technicalities below that, but very simply, the standards that have been established under the versions of the TP312 document have gone in a series of updates over the decades. Each time those updates are established, obviously they affect the construction and operation of major components of an airport, including runways, etc.

The typical practice, and the practice that has been put in place in the most recent revision, version five, has been to allow for grandfathering and continuing of previous exemptions and previous standards under version four until such time as significant changes are made.

March 9th, 2016 / 4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

Over to me, or do you want to follow up?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Go ahead.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

Okay.

Minister, how are you today?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

[Inaudible—Editor]

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

Minister, first of all, looking at the main estimates over the spend that's projected for this year, it looks like there's about a $400-million cut in Transport Canada's budget. Knowing how the department works, that's significant.

I want to narrow it down to a very specific program, because I have great concerns. It's the ferry services contribution. You're cutting 50% of the ferry services contribution program: $18 million. There are three ferry services here: Îles-de-la-Madeleine, Saint John-Digby, and Wood Islands-Caribou. Which one of these ferry services is being shut down?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

As I mentioned in my opening speech, this is one of the programs that is sunsetting currently. There could be some changes in the budget—we'll have to see that—but at the moment that is a program that is sunsetting.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

Minister, what you're saying is that the ferry service between Souris, P.E.I., and Îles-de-la-Madeleine, between Saint John, New Brunswick, and Digby, Nova Scotia, and between Wood Islands, Nova Scotia, and Caribou, P.E.I., are actually in jeopardy of not having money to be served because of these main estimates.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

On that question, I will defer to my deputy minister.

4:05 p.m.

Jean-François Tremblay Deputy Minister, Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, Department of Transport

As the minister mentioned in his speech at the beginning, the practice in main estimates is not to include whatever may come out of the budget. We don't know what will be in the budget. Like all sunsetting programs, you just have to take it as it is at the moment. This is pending the decision in the budget, so let's wait and see what will be in the budget on this one.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

Okay.

I have one final question, Mr. Chair.

How many rail inspectors do you currently employ at Transport Canada?

4:05 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, Department of Transport

Jean-François Tremblay

In terms of oversight at this moment, we have 1,472.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

But how many of those are actual inspectors?

4:05 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Laureen Kinney

In terms of rail inspectors, there are 137 as of the end of the third quarter, so December 31. Of course, that evolves and moves by one or two here and there.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

I would assume we remember how many we had last year. I think we had about 105 rail inspectors at the end of April last year. Is that correct?

4:05 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Laureen Kinney

I'd have to look at the exact numbers, but it was something like that.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lisa Raitt Conservative Milton, ON

So we increased the number of rail inspectors this year by about 30%. Congratulations.

That's it. Thank you very much.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Mr. Badawey.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Minister, thank you for being at today's meeting. It's great to see you. Congratulations as well on your new portfolio.

Mr. Minister, I had time over the past week to read the volumes produced for us with respect to the Canada Transportation Act review. Quite frankly, I was somewhat excited by some of the comments I saw within the review.

I want to mention two particular areas that I found worked in tandem with a lot of the information we had brought out within my own jurisdiction, my own riding, but also throughout southwestern Ontario, that quite frankly can contribute to the overall economy throughout the entire country. That is found on page 6 in the first part of volume 1:

The fact that connectedness to the world economy provides life-giving oxygen to the Canadian economy has two critical implications. First, the role of transportation and logistics—the efficient movement of people and goods—has become increasingly critical to international competitiveness. In fact, transportation logistics and supply chain efficiency is now seen by various research organizations as more important to global competitiveness than duties and tariff rates.

I think this is something we've learned throughout the years, dealing with both transportation and the economy and seeing the connectedness between both.

My question, Mr. Minister, is with respect to your comment in your opening remarks that you will follow the tabling with a substantial effort to hear from stakeholders across the country, across Canada, about the review's findings. Can you tell the committee exactly, a bit more specifically, what your intention is now to move forward with respect to the Canada Transportation Act review?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC

Thank you, Mr. Badawey, for the question. I was also struck by that quotation you cited in the early part of the report.

As I said in my opening speech, the transport ministry is viewed by me as an economic portfolio. I believe, and I've said this often, that the economy of our country depends on three big things: one, the products and services we have to offer to the world; two, the treaties we have with other countries that enable us to exchange these products and services; and three, how well set-up our trade infrastructure and trade corridors are in efficiently getting our products and services to other countries. I definitely regard the trade-related infrastructure part of transportation as a critical component.

For example, we know our railway system ships about 280-billion dollars' worth of goods annually, at least in 2014. That's a very large amount. Can we make it more efficient? The port of Vancouver handles 140 million tonnes of goods. Can we make it more efficient? Can we make other ports more efficient? How efficient is our intermodal transport? How many bottlenecks do we have in the country that are unnecessarily slowing down the efficient movement of trade-related goods that we want to sell to other countries, especially in many cases across the border into the United States where we do a great deal of trade?

For me this is an extremely important element of my mandate. It is the economic side of the transport ministry. I mentioned in my opening remarks that we are going to consult during the spring and summer with key stakeholders to see how they react to the recommendations. There are some 60 recommendations in the Emerson report.

Transport is not just a federal jurisdiction. We work with provinces and territories. I am interested in hearing what they have to say, because the more we are in sync on transport issues in this country, the better it is for all of us.

I've already begun some consultations by meeting with the Secretary of Transportation in the United States as well as the Secretary for Homeland Security, because both security and transport are essential aspects of trade between Canada and the United States, and we do a great deal of trade with the U.S. by road, ship, and rail.

There will be a consultation process. In the fall what we anticipate to do is to decide the recommendations we will go forward with, those we will not go forward with, and those we may partially go forward with. Before we get to that point, we want to have this consultation process throughout the spring and summer.