Evidence of meeting #54 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pilots.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Larry Lachance  Vice-President, Safety and Quality, NAV CANADA
Laureen Kinney  Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Aaron McCrorie  Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Denis Guindon  Director General, Aviation Safety Oversight and Transformation, Department of Transport
Samuel Elfassy  Managing Director, Corporate Safety, Environment and Quality, Air Canada
Glenn Priestley  Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
Darcy Granley  Vice-President, Safety, Security, and Quality, WestJet Airlines Ltd.

11:55 a.m.

Director General, Aviation Safety Oversight and Transformation, Department of Transport

Denis Guindon

We have done several campaigns targeted towards the 703 sector. A good example involves a float plane operation in B.C. We're looking at some areas of this segment of the industry in various places.

Our oversight activities are always evolving. We're looking at the greatest amount of risk. The 703 sector is an area in which we have some accidents, and we are looking more closely at having our inspectors more on the ground and doing more ramp inspections to be able to make sure that this sector is evolving appropriately.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

Thank you.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thanks to you all.

Thank you very much to our witnesses for the very valuable information.

I will suspend momentarily so that the witnesses can leave and the next panel can please come to the table.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

We'll reconvene the meeting and ask our witnesses if they would all please take a seat. To our committee members—

Sorry. Yes, Mr. Aubin.

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Chair, I would just like some clarification on how we are proceeding here.

How is it that, during our first hour, when we still had three minutes on the clock with our previous panel and I had enough questions to fill three hours, the chair immediately suspended the sitting, instead of giving me the few remaining minutes, which I could have used?

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

I would have liked very much to give you that time, but I was watching very closely that clock ahead of me and the witness went right up to that one minute before, so there was not time to give you. I watch the time very carefully because I like all members to get adequate time, since I know how many questions you have.

On this particular panel, knowing that at 12:30 the bells are going to ring, it gives us even bigger challenges in dealing with the time, so I would just open it up now.

Mr. Elfassy, from Air Canada, would you like to start? I'm also going to request that you keep your points as disciplined and direct as possible because the committee does have questions that we would like to get some answers to within our short time frame today, if possible.

Please, go ahead, sir.

12:05 p.m.

Samuel Elfassy Managing Director, Corporate Safety, Environment and Quality, Air Canada

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try to be as brief as I can.

Good morning, members of the standing committee.

On behalf of Air Canada, I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to speak to you today.

Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this important study on aviation safety. My name is Samuel Elfassy, and I'm the managing director of corporate safety, environment, and quality at Air Canada.

I'd like to start by giving the committee a quick brief on Air Canada, and where we are today before examining several issues concerning safety in aviation.

Air Canada is Canada's largest domestic and international airline, serving more than 200 airports. It is one of the few global airlines now serving six continents through our recent expansion of service out of Montreal's Pierre Elliot Trudeau International Airport to francophone centres in Africa. We directly serve 64 airports in Canada, 57 in the United States, and 91 in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, Australia, the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America, and South America. Last year we carried close to 45 million passengers, putting us among the 20 largest airlines in the world.

Air Canada is experiencing incredible growth with very positive contributions to the Canadian economy. At the heart of this growth has been the strength of the workforce. That has increased to 30,000, with close to 2,500 jobs added over the last three-year period. It is important to note that almost all of our new employees serving the public are bilingual, and more than 50% of them speak both English and French.

We are also in the middle of an $8 billion fleet renewal plan that is seeing Air Canada aircraft and major components being built and supported across the country, and new jobs being created in the highly skilled aerospace manufacturing sector.

Further, we are well recognized as one of Canada's top 100 companies. We have been recognized for our diversity program and, most recently, for our hiring and promotion of women in all areas and all levels of the company.

Considering that in 2009, we were on what our CEO referred to as “a burning platform”, and had come out of CCAA in 2004, our turnaround is something that we are all very proud of. Through these challenges, the company has emerged strong, sustainable, and positioned for the future. As Air Canada turns 80 this year, sharing a milestone with Canada's 150th birthday, we remain focused on being a global champion for Canada and carrying the maple leaf proudly for the years to come.

In many ways this positive attitude is no better displayed than in our approach to safety. We have no higher obligation to our coworkers, our passengers, and our airline. Amongst our corporate values, safety is first. Canadian airlines, including Air Canada, are among the safest in the world and reflect the global trend that air transport continues to improve year over year and remains one of the safest modes of transportation according to the International Air Transport Association, based in Montreal, Quebec.

Still, safety is an in-progress product that demands constant attention, innovation, and investment. This is not simply the work of the airlines, but demands the participation of airports, providers, suppliers, and governments if the system is to function properly.

Strong regulatory frameworks remain the foundation upon which we collectively build and enhance aviation operations and the industry as a whole. Working together, we must learn from past experiences and take bold measures to pave the way forward.

Air Canada is pleased to see that Transport Canada is taking active measures to address the challenge and risk that drones and lasers have introduced in recent years. The Transportation Safety Board of Canada itself is recognized as an international leader in safety investigations, and their watch-list focused attention and efforts on critical threats facing aviation operations.

Further improvements can be made, in fact, with core airport safety upgrades, including precision approach aids, enhanced runway lighting, runway overrun protections, runway incursion devices and incursion radar equipment. That said, enhancing safety of airline operations requires continuous innovation and regulatory improvements. There are still valuable TSB recommendations and ideas that have not been implemented by Transport Canada.

Equally, international programs, such as flight data monitoring, now adopted worldwide and recognized by Air Canada as a world class program, are still not fully recognized by Transport Canada. We invite the government to address these issues to ensure that we hold our standing and professional standards with the international aviation community.

Similarly, changes and improvements to security rules, staffing support, and protocols, making the process more efficient and allowing airports and regions, and, yes, the airlines, to benefit through secure yet less bureaucratic and disruptive processing of passengers will ultimately allow us to fully realize sixth freedom advantages offered by our geography.

Of course, we too have to work hard, and so we continue to examine our practices, our initiatives, and work with our internal policies to ensure we are compliant with aviation regulations and that we recognize and adopt best industry practices. We fully support the IATA operational safety audit program and work with partners in alliances and colleagues across the industry.

In closing, I would like to offer that our industry is strong and plays an important role in setting and maintaining effective international standards. There will always be work to accomplish, but together we have the opportunity to employ our collective best and the brightest to tackle these issues.

Thank you for your time. I look forward to answering any questions. Merci.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Mr. Elfassy.

Mr. Priestley from the Northern Air Transport Association.

12:10 p.m.

Glenn Priestley Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association

Thanks for the opportunity today.

My name is Glenn Priestley. I am the executive director of the Northern Air Transport Association, and it's a honour to work with such a fine group of professionals. For the sake of brevity, I've included an overview of NATA in a briefing note to provide you with background on the organization.

The three issues I would like to highlight today are the challenges associated with antiquated infrastructure, in the words of our Minister of Transport; the regulator's understanding and knowledge of issues; and the impact of the understanding of regulatory change without sufficient consultation.

We've broken it up into your terms of reference. Under personnel issues, I'd like to start with a quote:

...We cannot attract pilots to live in the northern communities any longer and therefore we must rotate our crews. To have a work life balance the flight crews require sufficient time off after a rotation (typically 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off). To penalize the operator because of its operating in the north is unfair. A good example would be typical [Air Canada] or WestJet pilots that do not reside in the city in which they base themselves out of. The flight crew “position” themselves at the latest possible time in order to instill the work life balance with their families. Because the airline has many flights per day throughout the southern part of Canada the pilot has many opportunities to “position” themselves. Northern communities have one and sometimes less than one flight per day and therefore the time spent by the pilot to “position” themselves is very different.

It's a different set of risks, a different set of challenges.

With regard to the enforcement and monitoring of legislation, NATA believes that's up to the organization doing the operations. Again, using the current proposed flight and duty time regulations as an example, this presentation highlights NATA's concern with a combination of factors of insufficient consultation by informed regulators to develop a set of regulations that will provide no measurable improvement in overall system safety, but will increase costs. That's an administrative example.

Let me give you another example:

...we will be looking for a vast number of exceptions to the indicated rules here with the irregular times that Medevacs are called in. Having all staff rotating into bases because we don't have the luxury of locating our bases out of large southern cities is problematic for the acclimatization side of things. This will require less time off for flight crews as we will have to rotate them up into the northern bases, put them to rest for 24 or 48 hours and then have them work a normal rotation. Their days off will be reduced dramatically and the quality of work life balance will suffer resulting in foreseeable problems....

That was from a pilot who has 25 years of experience and owns a company that's done 100,000 hours of flying accident-free. However, he was never consulted on the flight and duty time rules.

In the briefing note, I show a route map that is useful to illustrate the size of northern Canada. It's about 40% of Canada, or the size of western Europe, with the population equivalent of Moose Jaw or Kingston, and with approximately 100 airstrips, 10 of which are paved. The briefing note also lists several quotes and recommendations from the Canada Transportation Act review.

I will not read them all. The following, however, highlights the northern safety issues:

The heightened risk that attends the use of unpaved, short runways in northern and remote aviation could mean that services are lost, or that there are a higher number of accidents.

As far as the sleep issue, as a former pilot, I know it's far more fatiguing to fly into an airport ill-prepared.

Many of the Nunavut airports could benefit from the installation of GPS systems to reduce flight cancellations or missed approaches that have significant cost impacts to both passengers and airlines.

Let me continue with flight operations because it's a complex issue that northern operators have been managing very well with significant initial investment and ongoing costs. However, due to a lack of infrastructure in the north, many of the advancements in technology cannot be used. We have modern airplanes that can't go into many airports in the north, for instance.

With regard to northern accident intervention, NATA believes there's a root cause system safety issue identified that is evidenced in Transport Canada's development of prescriptive based rules for flight and duty times that do not meet the requirement of the cabinet directive on regulatory management, or the intent of the Canadian Aviation Regulation Advisory Council charter. There needs to be a better consultative process with the northern aviation stakeholders. The regulatory process is too confrontational, leading to diminished overall system safety.

We think it would be useful for Transport Canada to facilitate, in partnership with NATA, a northern aviation system safety committee comprised of stakeholders involved in ensuring safe and efficient aviation transportation. This committee would review the current proposed prescribed rules for flight and duty time, as well as a consultative approach for all future regulatory reviews.

In closing, I think this testimony clearly provides an example of how the regulator, because of lack of effective consultation, has created a problem where one did not exist. Indeed, with regard to flight and duty time:

...[it] will be extremely tough to manage and will no doubt require additional staff to maintain and track these hours in respect to each pilot and the duty day that is allowable. In the Medevac world our hours of operation are undetermined and there are many missions that would not be able to be completed by one flight crew due to stage lengths. (a typical medevac flight in the Kivalliq Region of Nunavut is 11 hours) To be required to change flight crews in the middle of a critical medevac could potentially cause serious negative effects to a patient up to and including death. The vast distances that are required to transport a patient from a northern community to a higher level of hospital care requires long duty days.

Thank you for your time.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Okay, I'm so glad you got that last little bit in there.

I'm just trying to keep up with time here today.

Mr. Granley, please go ahead on behalf of WestJet Airlines.

12:15 p.m.

Darcy Granley Vice-President, Safety, Security, and Quality, WestJet Airlines Ltd.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and committee members, for the invitation to be here today to discuss an issue that is so important to all WestJetters and is at the heart of our commitment to serve Canadians.

My name is Darcy Granley and I serve as WestJet's vice-president of safety, security, and quality. Reporting to our president and CEO, I am responsible for establishing and influencing the strategic direction, objectives, and policies and procedures for all safety and security related initiatives for WestJet.

During my 15-year career at WestJet, I have held various operational, technical, safety, and leadership roles, including as line pilot, technical pilot, and director of our operations control centre.

Prior to WestJet, I was proud to serve for 20 years in the Royal Canadian Air Force and was involved in various flight test programs, including the avionics upgrade to the C-130 Hercules aircraft and the CF-5 Freedom Fighter aircraft. I have flown over 7,000 hours and piloted more than 30 types of aircraft.

The sense of duty and obligation I have to serve Canadians is shared by everyone at WestJet, where safety is and always will be paramount.

For the committee's benefit, I would like to take a few minutes to give you a glimpse into how our company structures itself with regard to safety. I hope to assist in informing members how WestJet fulfils its obligation to keep Canadians safe. I trust this will also be helpful as you continue your deliberations on this important issue.

At the core of our safety focus are operational safety and occupational health and safety management systems. Canada was a leader in introducing SMS through regulation to Canada's air carriers in 2005. Being the first country to mandate SMS has allowed both Canada and our company to be at the leading edge of safety management.

Since 2005, we have worked in conjunction with Transport Canada to develop and grow our SMS to where it is today, an organized set of programs, principles, processes, and procedures to manage operational risks at the forefront of safety management. Our SMS integrates human, technical, and financial resources to achieve the highest level of safety through a focus on proactive risk management and quality management processes. However, it is our employees' daily commitment to our core safety value that ensures our excellent safety performance.

Our SMS also provides internal oversight of our safety programs and provides our leadership teams with the mechanism for continuous independent evaluation and improvement of our safety performance. In accordance with the regulatory requirements, we have a comprehensive SMS in place that includes the six components in support of our SMS: a safety management plan, documentation, safety oversight, training, quality assurance, and an emergency response plan.

We have a safety, health, and environment committee, which is one of the committees of the board of directors. This committee provides direction, monitors compliance, and makes recommendations to the board to enhance corporate performance as it relates to safety, health, and environmental principles.

We also have a department dedicated to facilitating safety activities within WestJet, and this department works closely with all operational departments in WestJet and is responsible for identifying and demonstrating conformance to our airline's safety, security, and quality objectives that meet or exceed regulatory requirements.

As a regulated component of our SMS, our emergency response plan is at the forefront of caring for our guests and employees. This commitment to our guests is not only evident throughout our operations, but it is the founding principle of our emergency response preparedness. Safety awareness is one of our most effective tools in keeping guests and WestJetters safe. In addition to the specialized training for our safety team members, all WestJet employees are required to complete annual online training to broaden awareness and understanding about our SMS and OHSMS programs.

We are an IOSA-registered and compliant airline. IOSA is an internationally recognized and accepted evaluation system designed to assist operational, management, and control systems of an airline and is the worldwide safety standard for code-share agreements. By following an SMS and being an IOSA-registered airline, WestJet's quality assurance program requires the performance of independent operational safety audits to ensure the ongoing compliance with Transport Canada regulations and IATA standards and identify opportunities for improvement.

The operational safety audits are completed by our operations and evaluations quality team on a two-year rolling program. Our SMS and OHSMS ensure a systematic approach to managing safety, including the necessary organizational structures, accountabilities, policies, and procedures. Both WestJet and WestJet Encore move in parallel with the evolution and continuous improvement of our safety culture, programs, and standards.

Through the integrated safety programs that comprise our SMS and OHSMS and the advanced safety systems on our aircraft, we strive to maintain the highest level of safety in our operations. We believe that our ownership culture at WestJet manifests itself in all aspects of our operations, and this includes safety. There are so many fundamental elements of our safety regime, and I would be pleased to take your questions on this issue.

Again, thank you to you and to the committee for inviting me here today.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you, Mr. Granley.

Before we go to questions, our apologies to our witnesses, as the bells are going to start at 12:30. Is there unanimous consent to go until a quarter to one so that everyone will get a chance to ask as many questions as possible?

If you want to go beyond 12:30, I need unanimous consent from the committee.

12:20 p.m.

An hon. member

Go to twenty to one.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Twenty to one? Is there unanimous consent that to go until twenty to one?

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Madam Chair, I think we could go to the end of the first round.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

We'll have to move if we're going to do it. Let's make an attempt. I don't know that we have that much time.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

What if you gave each party an opportunity to question?

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

We'll cut it down to....

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

One each on the first round—

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

We'll try to get a question in from each. Do we agree to do one question each and continue on?

12:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Angelo Iacono Liberal Alfred-Pellan, QC

Madam Chair, I think the vote has been cancelled.

12:20 p.m.

A voice

[Inaudible—Editor]

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

While you figure that out, we're going to get started.

Mr. Berthold.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Good morning. Thank you for your presentations.

I will start with the Air Canada representative.

During the numerous meetings we held leading up to our aviation safety study, we heard from a number of people that fatigue risk management standards varied depending on whether the air carrier was Air Canada or one of the companies under its label, such as Air Canada Rouge.

Is that correct?

If so, why would an Air Canada pilot be any less tired than an Air Canada Rouge pilot?