Evidence of meeting #54 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pilots.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Madam Chair, I would like to thank our witnesses for joining us today.
My first question is for the Air Canada representative. I'm going to try to be specific and use an example. That may be the best way for you to understand what I'm getting at.
Let's consider the following scenario: an Air Canada-operated flight between Vancouver and London that has three pilots. Is the decision to use three pilots based on scientific evidence showing the significant impact of fatigue on long-haul flights?
12:35 p.m.
Managing Director, Corporate Safety, Environment and Quality, Air Canada
There are a number of things that we would base the augment of that particular flight on. In the example you're using, from Vancouver to London Heathrow, one would be the collection of fatigue reports that we receive. Within Air Canada, we have the ability for flight crew to submit reports that identify particular pairings or particular routes where they've experienced fatigue, and we examine those routes. Within Air Canada, we have an internal working group that works with our pilots' association and management to look at those routes and examine them to better understand whether we need to augment them. We use internal reporting. We use science. We use information from events that have occurred to other carriers that may have reported issues of fatigue. More importantly, we do have policies for flight crew to ensure that they arrive for a particular flight well-rested and that they take the steps to ensure that they're well-rested. It's everything from accommodations—
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you.
Would I be right to assume that, when airlines opt to operate the same flight with only two pilots, economic competitiveness comes into play, overriding safety concerns?
For instance, would you be open to Canada following the U.S.'s lead, in the wake of the Buffalo accident, and introducing stricter criteria?
12:35 p.m.
Managing Director, Corporate Safety, Environment and Quality, Air Canada
I'm not sure I understand if the question is whether we're going to look at higher standards. I will tell you that economics does not win over safety. When we are aware of a safety concern that has been brought to our attention that compromises the safety of the mission of that particular flight, we take those issues very seriously.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you.
I will say that I'm rather in favour of using three pilots for the flight. Regardless, would it not be appropriate to revisit the standard allowing the use of two pilots, in light of basic scientific principles, so that economic competitiveness did not trump safety criteria? The question is for everyone.
12:35 p.m.
Vice-President, Safety, Security, and Quality, WestJet Airlines Ltd.
From a WestJet perspective, our approach again—which I think is in line with my colleague from Air Canada—is that we start with a prescriptive set a rules. We have very active FRMS program that's performance based at WestJet. When we look at routes, part of the performance-based approach is to take a look at the science. It's evidence-based. We encourage reporting. We analyze route by route and we will amend scheduling rules. We have active scheduling committees in place, and that includes front liners. We have tools in place that allow us, in advance, to proactively analyze routes and schedules to make sure that we are safe and compliant.
The bottom line is that safety is foundational. At WestJet, it's a core value. The FRMS program that we have in place supports the prescriptive rules and the scheduling committees that we have, the technical tools. We have advisers who support our FRMS program. Those are actively and continually evaluated on a case-by-case, route-by-route base.
As we have expanded out to 150 aircraft in 10 time zones, our FRMS program has been very active in making sure that we are addressing fatigue along those lines.
12:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Northern Air Transport Association
Thank you.
It's a great question because it shows how far apart southern flying is from northern flying. On any given day, right now, there are 60 to 70 airplanes all up. That's all that's flying in the north. We don't have thousands of pilots. We have companies who know the names of their pilots, and every day they go, “Robert, how are you feeling today?” We do it on a daily basis. Every trip is different.
This isn't flying to London, to Heathrow. This is flying Iqaluit to Clyde River and not making it because of bad weather reporting, because there are not enough services, and having to divert into Pang. They can't get into Pang because it's too short and the runway's bad. Then there's a plan C. That's the north. All right? It's very much about watching each other, because there aren't that many of us.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
I heard you say first round, but we are getting close to the time time. My apologies to the witnesses. This is the life of parliamentarians currently.
Thank you very much. We may ask you back, or we may communicate in writing if we have any additional questions.
Thank you all very much.
This meeting is adjourned.
