Transport Committee on May 4th, 2017

[Steve Maybee]

One of the main concerns right now is funding for all the activities we have to do. Airports are heavy on infrastructure, and the cost of doing all of these items is a balance between everything we do.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Mahon.

[Glenn Mahon]

I would have to agree with Mr. Gow. We need to provide civil aviation inspectors with adequate training, resources, and so on to enable them to be more accessible to the stakeholders and to more effectively implement the regulations.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you very much, Mr. Iacono.

All our colleagues are giving you this additional time on your wedding anniversary. I know that Rana and you are celebrating your wedding anniversary. We are pleased to give you this additional time as a small gift.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you very much.

We often say, happy wife, happy life. That's important.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Happy wedding anniversary, Mr. Iacono.

I now give the floor to John Barlow for six minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Again, thank you to our witnesses for being here today and sharing your very critical information as we proceed through this.

I'm just filling in today, so I haven't been informed of the entire study, but I have several smaller airports in my constituency of Foothills in southwestern Alberta, including the Springbank, Okotoks, and Pincher Creek airports. With some of these new regulations, they've really been struggling to try to stay open.

Mr. Maybee, are the new regulations for SMS nimble enough to address all the situations at all sizes of airport, whether it's Edmonton International or Springbank, which is more of a regional airport?

[Steve Maybee]

The regulation is really effective at the larger airports. It gets very difficult for smaller airports to fulfill all of the requirements, especially when it comes to the audit processes and staying on top of them. It's tough for a small airport to go out and hire a third party consultant at $30,000 to $50,000 to do a full audit. It's tough to have internal people follow up on all the SMS parameters and any issues that need to be followed up in documentation, because SMS is a management program. It's very difficult for smaller airports to maintain.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. Mahon, you have a bit of a smaller airport. How has it been for Atlantic Canada and some of the airports you're dealing with out there?

[Glenn Mahon]

Our experience has been that SMS can be geared to the size and complexity of the individual airports and so on. As Mr. Maybee said, one of the biggest challenges with SMS implementation is the administrative side of it. It takes resources and so on to be able to keep that system operating the way it should. One of the things the airports have done is collaborate with the ACI and the CAC on the Canadian airports national audit program.

Those are some of the steps that we're taking to try to minimize the cost and the effort for airports, and to provide consistency among airports on how some of these things are done.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I appreciate the answers that all three of you have given today, but I've heard a lot comments to the effect that “SMS is the best system we've ever had. It's doing great, but...”. There are a lot of “but”s and a lot of concerns that still arise from it.

One of the things that I had an opportunity to read before being here today was a survey by the Canadian Federal Pilots Association. My colleague, Mr. Badawey, touched on that a bit. One of the things that really jumped out at me was a change in the requirements, so that pilots can now renew their flying certificates only by simulator and not by being in the air. This concerns me, in the sense that they may not be training in situations in the simulator that happen in the air. You never know what can happen when you're actually in the air. Does this concern the airport operators? Is this something that you've had an opportunity to discuss with Transport Canada and the pilots' association?

[Steve Maybee]

We're doing a bit of work in Edmonton around simulator training. We have two simulators on site. They're the only ones of their kind in North America: one for helicopters and one for 737s. There are some advantages to simulators: you can practise things in the simulator that you can't practise in the air. By the same token, hands-on training in the aircraft is not something that's going to be replaced by simulator training. Simulator training should be used to enhance what is learned in the cockpit, but you can't remove it.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I know that Mr. Badawey also touched on the fact that runway overruns have been added to the watch-list, but Transport Canada undertook a study, and it guided future actions.

In its response it stated:

...the TSB remains concerned that the Transport Canada study methodology and proposed criteria may not adequately address the underlying safety deficiency which gave rise to its recommendation on runway end safety areas.

Mr. Maybee, Mr. Mahon, and Mr. Gow, I'll give each of you a chance, but what do you see as the way forward from here? What could be a possible resolution?

[Glenn Mahon]

As I mentioned earlier, at our airports, we don't feel that runway end safety areas are a proactive solution to the problem of aircraft overruns. There's certainly value in RESAs, and they are able to minimize risk, damage, and so forth, but really, I think it needs to be done in combination. We need to look at unstable approaches, the effects of RESAs, and so on.

[Steve Maybee]

I would agree with that. A runway end safety area is the catchall. If something else goes wrong, it is there to save the aircraft, but if an aircraft touches down, halfway down a runway, how long does the runway end safety area have to be? Five hundred metres, 1,000 metres? Where do you go?

We have to address the key issue, which is the stabilization of the approach and the navaids, and different things that we can put in place to support pilots in that landing.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. Gow?

[Harry Gow]

If I may say so, I believe in training, training, training, and hands-on practice in real situations.

I'll just relate quickly that a railway tried to run its locomotives without people in the cab, which is a bit like having a simulator simulating a flight. It didn't work out because there was too much in the way of wind, animals crossing the track, and unexpected rain bursts; and the situation wasn't dealt with adequately by the machine.

Again, a machine cannot perhaps easily invent a fox or a deer that dashes across the runway, or a flock of geese that flies into a motor. It can be done, but I have not heard of it being done a lot.

In the end, in a situation where climate change is making things more unpredictable and unstable, the real world and training in it seem to me to be what will help prevent accidents on landing and takeoff.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you, Mr. Gow, Mr. Barlow, Mr. Maybee and Mr. Mahon, for joining us and being so understanding of our little time requirements.

We will suspend the meeting for a few minutes to allow the witnesses for the second hour to take a seat.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

We will call this meeting back to order.

During the second hour, we will have the pleasure of hearing from the following witnesses: Mark Beauregard, Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada; Robert Donald, Executive Director, Canadian Council for Aviation and Aerospace; and Robert J. Deluce, President and Chief Executive Officer, Porter Airlines Inc.

Gentlemen, thank you for joining us today.

Mr. Beauregard, I give the floor to you for five minutes, so that you can make your presentation.

[Mark Beauregard, Vice-President, Regulatory Affairs, Aerospace Industries Association of Canada]

Good afternoon. My name is Mark Beauregard and I am the vice-president for regulatory affairs at the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada.

Our members manufacture aeronautical and space products and engage in aircraft maintenance, repair, and overhaul. They contribute $28 billion to the economy each year and help to employ well over 200,000 people. Over 80% of the aerospace industry's goods and services are exported. Much of this is for civil applications.

Our industry complies with a vast regime of safety standards and regulations destined to ensure that air travel remains safe, reliable, and sustainable. Of course, safe products and services are an essential, necessary part of this safety imperative. This is only possible through international cooperation and a network of global regulatory bodies and arrangements.

Canada has long been a global leader in this area. Transport Canada's civil aviation branch, or TCCA, is known worldwide as one of the big four regulatory bodies, along with the U.S. FAA, Europe's EASA, and Brazil's ANAC. This is important not only because of the clear role TCCA plays in aviation safety, but also because TCCA's approvals and certifications open doors for Canadian products and services into global markets and make it easier for Canadian manufacturers and service providers to do business in foreign jurisdictions. TCCA's leadership doesn't only keep us safe, it also helps make us more prosperous.

We estimate that TCCA's continued position as a global certification leader can be directly linked to at least 30% of all Canadian aerospace activity. That's an economic impact of $10 billion in GDP each year. This should be a good news story, an example of how a modern regulator keeps Canadians safe and creates economic opportunity for innovative and entrepreneurial Canadian businesses. However, Transport Canada's ability to maintain its standard of service is at risk, even as its role is more important than ever.

Over the past 10 years, Canada's aerospace industry has grown substantially. Our economic impact has increased by 31% in terms of GDP, by 39% in terms of productivity, and by 64% in terms of R and D spending. Over the same period of time, the budget for Transport Canada's certification and standards branch has not increased at all. In fact, in real terms it has actually been reduced. This is having a significant negative impact. The lack of adequate funding has resulted in delays on certifications and approvals. It is creating bottlenecks and is impeding the industry's ability to keep up with demand and stay competitive in foreign markets. We are now seeing warning signs that TCCA's global reputation as a leading aviation authority is being questioned by the international community. Once that reputation is lost, the competitive advantage enjoyed by Canadian companies that rely on TCCA services will also disappear.

It's a well-known truism that reputations take years to build, but can be lost very quickly. This is certainly applicable to TCCA. To put it bluntly, TCCA's long-held position as a leading global certification and regulatory authority is at risk.

But there are a couple of pieces of good news. First, it's not too late to fix the problem and restore Transport Canada's ability to continue its role as a world-leading aviation authority. Second, it's not a difficult fix. We estimate that a budget infusion of $30 million over five years into TCCA's certification and standards branch would be enough to protect the $10 billion that TCCA helps drive into our economy each year.

As you look at the study, we encourage you to consider the important role that TCCA plays in ensuring Canada's aviation safety, as well as the impact it has on Canadian businesses and communities that reap the rewards of its global leadership. I urge you to ensure that TCCA receives the financial support it needs to do its very important work.

Thank you for your time. I'm happy to answer any questions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you very much, Mr. Beauregard.

Mr. Donald, you have five minutes to make your presentation. Go ahead.

[Robert Donald, Executive Director, Canadian Council for Aviation and Aerospace]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon.

As noted, my name is Robert Donald. I'm the executive director of the Canadian Council for Aviation and Aerospace.

This is the first time we've had the privilege of being here, and I thank you for inviting us.

For those not familiar with our organization, our council, we are not a trade association or a union. We're an industry resource. We are a not-for-profit national partnership that brings together business; industry associations, such as many of those in the room; educators; organized labour; and governments.

We focus on the national labour force in the aviation and aerospace industry on behalf of all the subsectors—helicopters, business jets, ATAC, AIAC, and others, who are all represented on our board, together with colleges, industry, and organized labour.

We implement solutions to the specific skills and demographic needs of the industry to help ensure that industry has enough people with the right skills for today and for the projected growth in our industry, which you no doubt have heard about over the last few days.

Our funding comes principally from corporate partners, training, and government projects, who give us contracts to do labour market studies and other initiatives on behalf of the industry.

There are three points I'd like to talk to you about this morning, all of them related to personnel issues, which is on your agenda. One, our industry is facing increasingly critical skills shortages. These shortages impact not only our economy and the viability of companies but also safety. Two, we need a national labour market strategy, supported by government, to address these skills gaps in our industry. Three, national standards and certification for non-licensed trades improve safety.

Turning to critical shortages, CCAA has just completed the most comprehensive labour market study ever undertaken for our industry. Copies are available on our website, if you would like.

Seventy-three per cent of respondents agreed they have immediate and persistent shortages, such that current positions are going unfilled. These same companies are projecting different metrics of growth. However, all that will do is exacerbate the problem. If Canada doesn't have sufficient workers with the right skills, the jobs will go elsewhere and may never come back. It's a global competition. We are also competing with every other sector in this country for the available talent.

The lack of experienced personnel can lead to those without the traditional levels of competence doing the work and the training. This applies to the industry workforce as well as to regulators. The risks to safety would seem to be self-evident if we have fewer and fewer people without the traditional levels of competence.

We need a national labour market strategy to address these skills gaps. Only governments can take the extended view. We need government support. Industry can look out a couple of months for the SMEs. It can look out a couple of years for the Air Canadas and Bombardiers. Colleges can look out a little further. But only government can take that extended view that we need for a long-term strategy in this industry. It's crucial.

As for the question of national standards and certification, hopefully you've received some of our material showing what we have done developing standards over 25 years. They're unique in the world. No other country has this. ICAO has asked us to show this Canadian system to the world. Standards and certification promote safety. A certified painter is safer than a non-certified aviation painter, even if the work is signed off by an AME.

Thank you for your time. I'm happy answer questions.

Merci bien.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you very much, Mr. Donald.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Deluce.

Thank you for taking the time to come meet with us, Mr. Deluce. You have five minutes to make your presentation.

[Robert Deluce, President and Chief Executive Officer, Porter Airlines Inc.]

Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chair and honourable committee members, for inviting me to speak today.

I am Robert Deluce, president and chief executive officer of Porter Airlines.

Porter is Canada's third-largest scheduled commercial airline. We service some 23 destinations in Canada and the United States. Our fleet is comprised of 29 made-in-Canada Bombardier Q400s, and we employ approximately 1,500 team members.

Although there are many important issues where the federal government regulates and affects our operations, today I’d like to just focus my comments on the forthcoming regulations as they relate to crew fatigue management.

We are absolutely committed to safety, but the regulations as drafted would significantly affect the operations of Porter and many other airlines. The notice of proposed amendment on crew fatigue management was issued in 2014 and was met with concern by many in the industry. However, few revisions have been made. This proposed regulation implements a one-size-fits-all solution to an issue where individual considerations must be taken into account.

Porter has had tremendous success with our self-guided and Transport Canada-overseen safety management system. This allows us to emphasize best practices for safety within our particular operations. The restrictions in this proposed regulation necessitate a substantial increase in our crew numbers. We have to decide between eliminating over 650 flights per month or hiring 68 more crew members—34 pilots and 34 flight attendants—to cover the restrictions outlined in the notice of intent. This would be a 13% increase to our pilot roster. The total cost of implementation would be over $6 million per year in 2017 dollars.

Global demand for pilots is outpacing the supply from Canadian aviation schools. The 2016-17 pilot turnover has been the highest in our 10-year history of operating. The proposed regulation will require every airline to increase their pilot roster by approximately 10%, which for Air Canada—and I’m not speaking for them—and their subsidiaries, including Rouge, would probably mean 300 additional pilots. That happens to be more than Porter's entire roster of pilots. This could be devastating to our operations, as we will either have an insufficient number of pilots or have to revisit standards for training and experience.

A negative policy consequence of this proposed regulation would be the hiring less-experienced pilots in Canada, or having fewer flight options and higher fares for passengers. As only a finite number of trained commercial pilots exist, the world has a shortage and is struggling to meet market demands. Porter and other carriers are already being affected by this, and this particular notice of intent will only exacerbate the current situation.

This proposed regulation does not promote safety, as there is no empirical evidence to support that claim. What it does is to make airlines in Canada less competitive compared to their U.S. counterparts.

In our 10 years, we have successfully addressed any concerns about fatigue with our safety management system. We believe that all carriers in Canada will have more successes with fatigue risk management and safety management systems than by putting in place a one-size-fits-all intent. This allows each airline to adopt best practices and can be monitored by Transport Canada.

Thank you very much. I look forward to any questions.