Evidence of meeting #70 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was passengers.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro
Thank you very much. I'm sorry, but you're over your time limit.
We'll go on to Mr. Godin.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to begin by thanking you for being part of this. You work on a daily basis in this wonderful world of air transportation, especially with passengers. You provide us with tools that allow us to do our jobs well. Thank you for being here despite the rather late hour.
My first question is for the representative from Flight Claim Canada.
You are saying that the information for passengers is inadequate. Your goal is to ensure that the information is more detailed, transparent, clear and unequivocal. That's what you said in your presentation.
My question is very direct: do you think Bill C-49 meets those objectives?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Flight Claim Canada Inc.
Not in its current form. The criteria must be much clearer. That is why I said that the people making the regulations must be given clear criteria.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
As I understand it, the bill in its current form does not meet your objectives.
Do you think it might eventually get there?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Flight Claim Canada Inc.
Yes. I think that if some, if not all, of the 15 proposals that we have put forward in the brief are implemented, they will include and protect Canadian passengers as much as, if not more than, what is being done internationally.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Let me continue along the same lines. You have mentioned Europe and its regulations many times. I gather that you think European passengers are better protected and supported, and that the airlines are more responsible and respectful toward their passengers.
Why do you think the government is not drawing inspiration from the European regulations?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Flight Claim Canada Inc.
I actually think that we are reaching a solution, and we have to ensure that it is fair, and therefore as generous as what Europe has to offer. This solution must also be humane, taking passengers into account.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
You say that the European regulations are being taken into account. Could you tell me what evidence you have that the current government has considered the European regulations in drafting Bill C-49?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Flight Claim Canada Inc.
Well, a compensation system and the systems in place are mentioned, but in reference to the European regulations. However, we are working on the legislation now. So we will have to compare the regulations stemming from the act to see whether or not they are comparable. We personally want the regulations to ensure that all passengers are treated equally.
September 14th, 2017 / 6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Legal Advisor, Flight Claim Canada
I would like to add something if I may. I think the general principles are somewhat similar to those of the European regulations. I do not recall exactly which clause of the bill it is, but it talks about minimum compensation and the right of passengers to be informed. That follows the European principle almost to the letter, as it establishes a minimum and even a notice that each airline must provide in the event of cancellation or delay.
I think we are there, and the principles are there. A number of things are addressed. I think the only difference is that the criteria are clear in the European regulations, whereas they are still a little fuzzy here.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
As I understand it, you think the criteria are not clear and, in order to make them clear, we should define our objective more clearly within the regulations.
Since time flies, I now have a question for the representative from Air Passenger Rights.
You said that the Canadian Transportation Agency is not effective. Today, we have been told quite the contrary, namely that the Agency is effective and that it also enforces the legislation. I wonder who is telling the truth. Could you tell me what makes you say that the Canadian Transportation Agency is not effective?
Founder and Coordinator, Air Passenger Rights
With respect to the Canadian Transportation Agency, this is a question of fact shown by the statistics and shown by the number of decisions and nature of decisions issued by the Canadian Transportation Agency. When you have a regulator that claims to have expertise in the airline industry, which accepts that a jumbo jet can be fully boarded by over 200 passengers in five or 10 minutes, then you know something is really wrong at that body. And these are some of the nature of the decisions that I have seen coming out.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Amir, when I last spoke, you wanted to add something, but I ran out of time. If you remember what you wanted to say, please go ahead.
Legal Advisor, Flight Claim Canada
I have a good memory, I remember.
You had asked whether airlines sometimes pass the buck to airports. It has happened. My colleague Mr. Charbonneau did not remember, but having filed a number of complaints myself and having been front and centre, I remember a clear example involving Vueling Airlines, whose head office is in Barcelona. The company, subject to European regulations, had a three-hour delay. However, it invoked section 3 on compensation, saying that it was not at fault and passing the buck to the airport whose check-in system was down.
Finally, the conclusion was that the circumstances were not extraordinary, since that was part of Vueling's activities, and the company was used to working with airports and check-in systems.
Once again, the extent of the liability is not clear. Is Vueling fully responsible or does half of the responsibility fall on the airport? That's not clear at all. Earlier, I heard comments to that effect, and perhaps the extent of responsibility should be clarified.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you. Clearly, you are showing us that Canadians have rights of which they are not aware and that you make sure they are respected.
In the industry, which is not governed by a charter right now, are there huge differences in the compensation to passengers?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Flight Claim Canada Inc.
Are you referring to those that are not subject to—
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
No, I would like to know whether, for the same problem, such as lost luggage, there are big differences in compensation from company to company.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Flight Claim Canada Inc.
Yes, indeed, under the Montreal Convention, which provides for compensation, in particular for luggage or for personal or financial losses, there are very big differences. People often have to fight in small claims court, and ultimately a judge will determine the compensation to be awarded to the customer.
Often, the time and effort required to settle everything is not worth the amount claimed initially for the time wasted because of the delay, flight cancellation, or lost luggage.
NDP
President and Chief Executive Officer, Flight Claim Canada Inc.
No, we apply the criteria that are defined. So there's not a wide gap because all instances are listed. European compensation for a flight delayed more than four hours for a distance of more than 3,500 km will always be in the amount of 600 euros.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
Let's talk about a flight operated by a joint venture because there is no direct flight. For instance, if I were travelling from Montreal to Brussels and from Brussels to another city, should I have to deal with each airline or only the one from which I bought my ticket?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Flight Claim Canada Inc.
Actually, when it comes to joint ventures and the flight is operated by another company, the airline will pass the buck to the other company.
For the rest, it depends. Do all the segments have the same reservation number or not? Where did the glitch occur? For example, was it a European or Canadian connecting flight? That will affect the legal aspects.
NDP
Robert Aubin NDP Trois-Rivières, QC
In your view, should Bill C-49 solve the problem by determining that the company from which the person buys the ticket is responsible for that person?