Evidence of meeting #22 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ehren Cory  Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank
John Casola  Chief Investment Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank
Yves Giroux  Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Nora Nahornick  Economic Analyst, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

I am going to call this meeting to order.

I would like to welcome all of you to meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So that you are all aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking [Technical difficulty—Editor].

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few points to follow. First off, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are in fact available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the committee is meeting in person in any given committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on video conference, please click on the microphone to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

I remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. With regard to a speakers list, the committee clerk and I will do our very best, as always, to maintain the order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

I also want to remind everyone that when you see the hand go up from my end, it's the one-minute warning. Of course, with that, once the one minute is done, I will lower the hand and expect you folks to complete your statements, questions or comments.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 29, 2020, the committee is meeting today to continue its study on the Canada Infrastructure Bank.

It's my pleasure to welcome and introduce our witnesses today.

First off, from the Canada Infrastructure Bank, we have Ehren Cory, the chief executive officer; and John Casola, the chief investment officer.

For the second hour, we're going to have, from the PBO—the Parliamentary Budget Office—Yves Giroux, Parliamentary Budget Officer, and Nora Nahornick, economic analyst.

With that, we'll start off with Mr. Cory.

You can start us off for five minutes. The floor is yours.

March 23rd, 2021 / 3:40 p.m.

Ehren Cory Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As you say, I'm Ehren Cory. I am the chief executive officer of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. I really thank you for the opportunity to appear today.

I am meant to be joined by my colleague John Casola, as you mentioned, Mr. Chair. I believe John continues to have technical difficulties. Hopefully, he will join me.

John is our chief investment officer. Together, our intention is to provide you with an update on our work and an outlook on the CIB, in particular our potential to contribute to Canada's economic recovery and long-term sustainability.

We share with the committee the consistent objective of investing in Canada's infrastructure and modernizing it, so that Canadians can benefit from it. We believe that the Canada Infrastructure Bank, or CIB, is an important and innovative tool, and that it can help address the infrastructure deficit in Canada.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Maninder Sidhu Liberal Brampton East, ON

Point of order, Mr. Chair. I'm getting the translation at the same sound as Mr. Cory.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Thank you, Mr. Sidhu.

Mr. Clerk, can we check on that, please? Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

Shall I continue, Mr. Chair?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Sure. Go ahead.

3:45 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

In my opening, I'd like to highlight five things for you today.

First, I'd like to talk about the significant pipeline of investments the CIB is currently working on, which will deliver results.

The $10-billion growth [Technical difficulty—Editor] was an inflection point for the CIB, and since then our momentum has grown. We announced the $407-million investment in the Alberta irrigation project, which will kick-start the largest agricultural irrigation expansion in the history of the province. The project will result in up to 6,800 direct and indirect permanent jobs and up to 1,280 construction jobs. It will also open an estimated 200,000 acres of more productive agricultural land.

We also announced the Oneida battery energy storage project, which will be the largest battery storage project in Canada and among the largest in the world. It is a partnership between an innovative Canadian company and the Six Nations of the Grand River Development Corporation. It is another project we are very excited about.

Finally, our first zero-emission bus investment has been finalized, and we will be announcing it in co-operation with our partner in the coming weeks. This is another important step in delivering outcomes.

In addition to these three new projects, we are in detailed negotiations for, and have confidence in, a critical mass of additional projects coming by Canada Day, and in many cases sooner. In fact, we believe eight additional projects can and will be approved and announced in the coming three months.

We estimate that from the time we launched the growth plan last October to Canada Day of this year, new CIB investment commitments will total $2.5 billion. When these investments are added to the previous investment in the REM project in Quebec, this portfolio will have $3.8 billion in CIB investment in total, with approximately $5.8 billion in private and institutional capital for these projects. This private and institutional capital comes from pensioners who are part of organizations like the Caisse and farmers who are part of irrigation districts. These pension funds, private companies, first nations, broadband service providers and building owners are all non-governmental investment partners working closely with the CIB to deliver new infrastructure, as intended by the CIB Act.

We will have investments in all of our priority sectors and all five pillars of the growth plan by this summer, while continuing in parallel, of course, to work diligently to advance the longer-term transformational nation-building projects that the CIB is engaged in with our partners.

Second, we are doing more than just projects. Beyond the individual projects I've outlined, last week we announced our new indigenous community infrastructure initiative. We expect this will create a significant number of new project opportunities and have benefits with and for indigenous communities and partners at the scale of infrastructure they need to make their communities more successful. Similarly, our initiatives for zero-emission buses, as well as our building retrofits program, are open for business and being well received, and we will see new investments as a result.

We launched our unsolicited proposals framework, the first of its kind in Canada. All this was done in the last three months.

Third is our focus on outcomes. Delivering new infrastructure is about getting projects built and dollars invested. However, new infrastructure is also a means to an end. Investment in construction leads to connecting more people's homes and businesses to broadband, producing and using cleaner electricity, living and working in energy-efficient buildings, exporting crops produced on better irrigated land and increasing transit ridership on zero-emission buses and transit systems. Our investments process and due diligence are informed by the goal of not only investing money in new projects and getting new infrastructure built, but achieving tangible outcomes for Canadians.

Fourth, we are working to reduce the infrastructure gap through partnering. Nearly every country in the world faces a significant infrastructure gap. Increasingly, not only Canada but other countries, including the U.S. and the U.K., have announced intentions to renew their investment infrastructure with institutions like infrastructure banks similar to the CIB. This is important to have in context.

Certainly, governments could increase budgets and provide traditional grant funding, but that has fiscal limits and that approach doesn't always achieve performance results or transfer risks in the real world. There is a limit to it. On the other hand, many infrastructure projects get built on purely commercial terms because there is private sector investment to do that. Government can expect to have the private sector do more of this on its own, but that does not necessarily address the importance or shape the kind of public infrastructure that serves the public good.

That is why the CIB presents a third way. To be clear, the CIB does not provide grants and does not invest when the private sector can do so alone. The CIB is instead a credible made-in-Canada way of doing things to stretch public dollars further and attract private capital to get more infrastructure built for the benefit of Canadians.

In practical terms, the CIB can finance projects at lower rates, absorb some risks that are impediments to projects happening, catalyze private sector investments and performance to deliver projects, and get our capital back when our long-term low-interest loans are repaid. And we can also take equity positions and invest in other ways.

Simply put, the CIB is another alternative in the tool kit, and often a better one, especially in large-scale revenue-generating projects.

A key element of the CIB is our collaboration with governments at all levels, including provinces, territories and municipalities, as well as indigenous communities.

Finally, I would like to be clear that [Technical difficulty—Editor] the CIB has no mandate at all to sell private assets.

My fifth and final point is that we're in a new phase at the CIB, with new leadership and clear direction. The CIB is well positioned to play a meaningful role [Technical difficulty—Editor] deficit. I was pleased and humbled to join the organization a few months ago. We have a strong leadership at the board, which has responsibility in investment decisions. We have an excellent team of investment and finance professionals in place. In addition to the leadership at the CIB, we have a clear understanding of the policy priorities that the government and the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities have for us and their expectations and urgency for us.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Thank you, Mr. Cory.

3:50 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

We're now going to move onto Mr. Casola.

Mr. Casola, do you have any additional comments?

3:50 p.m.

John Casola Chief Investment Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

I have nothing to add to what Ehren said. Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Wonderful. Thank you.

And thank you, Mr. Cory.

We're now going to move forward with our speakers list. For the first round, we have six minutes each. First up, we have Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Scheer, the floor is yours.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome our guests and thank them very much for their presentations. As they will know, this committee is undertaking this study to find out what exactly has prevented the Canada Infrastructure Bank from getting any projects completed in the almost four years since its inception.

I just have a few questions to start off with.

Earlier in 2020, the former chair of the CIB, Michael Sabia, told Canadians that they could expect a return of $2 for every $1 of taxpayers' money: $2 in private sector investment for every $1 of taxpayers' money invested. Is that still the mandate of the Canada Infrastructure Bank?

3:50 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

Yes, in general, our goal is absolutely to crowd in private investment, and that ratio of 2:1 is approximately what we're seeing. As I mentioned, if you take our total portfolio—from the REM project to the announced projects that I mentioned in the growth plan since October, as well as the ones that are in final negotiation term sheets and approval, so deals that are close to announcement and will be in the coming weeks—that totals to about $3.8 billion of CIB investment and about $6 billion in private and institutional.

It's tracking somewhere close to that 2:1 ratio. Yes, that's correct.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

We only have what has been committed to date to evaluate. We've heard from the bank before promises of projects coming, and the bank has undergone a couple of rejigs and major shifts in both its corporate plan and in its overall management, so we can't really look at what may or may not come, because so far the track record has been pretty poor up until now.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer released a finding today that their impact has been no private sector investment committed to date, including the projects you mentioned. How much private sector investment, private sector dollars, has been invested in the Alberta irrigation project to date?

3:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

First, if I may, I'd love to address the comment about progress, and then I absolutely will talk about the Alberta irrigation project, if that's all right. I think it's important just to set the stage. I know this has been a discussion with other witnesses, so I just want to recap. I think it's been a really good discussion you've had as a committee.

Certainly, there are long-term infrastructure projects that take years to go from engineering, feasibility, environmental approvals, procurement and development. We know this to be the case. As an investor in those projects, we can only invest at the pace that those projects move. Some of the MOUs we've signed are for projects of that nature. That, I think, is important. It's important to note that many infrastructure projects do take long term to develop, especially transformational nation-building ones, interprovincial transmission, major transit projects. Certainly you would look at a project like many of the bridges, or transit projects, and they take years. It's important that—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

Mr. Cory, I understand that; we've heard that from the minister as well. The reason I have to interrupt is that we only have limited time and I have a series of questions.

Specifically with the irrigation project, can you tell the committee how much private sector money to date has been invested in that, how much partnership from the private sector has been produced by the bank's involvement?

3:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

Of course. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would just end my comment about long-term projects by saying that the growth plan, conversely, is designed to trigger short-term projects, deliver real economic impact and aid in both economic recovery and infrastructure.

That is why, Mr. Chair, we actually have a building track record now of real, tangible projects, not just Alberta irrigation and Oneida, but our first bus deal and our first energy retrofit project, to be announced next week.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Do you have a response to Mr. Scheer's question, please?

3:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

Of course.

With regard to Mr. Scheer's question, the Alberta irrigation project is a three-way investment between ourselves, at about half of the capital, $400 million; the Government of Alberta, which has provided funding for that project; and the eight irrigation districts of Alberta, which have provided funding to the tune of $163 million. That represents, through—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

Are those municipal governments?

3:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

No, those are independent irrigation districts. They are owned collectively by the major irrigators, and Mr. Casola can speak more to the deal structure if we need to.

Those represent, to us, non-governmental sources of funding that are not traditional grant funding. It's going to be paid back, of course, through the increased yield and increased arable lands that are opened up and the production of that land. It's about new revenues that will pay for that through the irrigation districts. That is absolutely, in our mind, a form of private capital that is separate and apart from traditional grants.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

In your mind, are public pension plans non-government private sources of investment?

3:55 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canada Infrastructure Bank

Ehren Cory

Yes, they are. Certainly the work on the REM project, which has a large institutional investor involved in it, represents pensioners from across—

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Scheer Conservative Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

That's the Quebec public pension plan.