Transport Committee on March 25th, 2021

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I'm talking about Sean Fitzgibbon's case, Minister.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, my colleague knows that I can't talk about individual cases. I'm happy, by the way, if he wants to talk to me about an individual case, to look at the case after the call, but I can't publicly speak about individual cases for privacy concerns.

Having said that, let me speak in general. It is very important—

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Can you at least commit to looking into his case?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval, and thank you, Minister. The time is up. I do apologize. I have to move on to the next speaker.

Mr. Bachrach, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today. I want to start by asking you the question that's the subject of the motion I hope to pose later, which is, would you be willing to visit this committee on April 13 alongside the Auditor General to talk with us at more length about the specific topic of rail safety?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, to you and my colleagues, having been a member of Parliament for many years, I very much respect the work of the committee. The committee gets to decide on which motions to pass. I hope I've already demonstrated my desire to come back to see you, committee members. I've been in this job for just over two months, and I'm back here for the second time. I don't know if I can commit to a specific date, but I'm certainly happy to entertain any invitation by the committee.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, rail safety is something that is on the minds of people in northwest B.C. these days given the already increased amount of dangerous goods being transported along the rail line between Prince George and Prince Rupert. There are also several terminal projects that, if completed, would increase the number of cars with dangerous goods going through the corridor by over 100 cars per day. Therefore, people are very concerned.

They're also concerned having heard the environment commissioner's report and the Auditor General's report and having seen a number of derailments along the rail corridor. A number of local governments and other organizations have written to you on this topic. These include the Regional District of Bulkley-Nechako, the North Coast Regional District, the Town of Smithers, the District of Houston, the Village of Burns Lake, and most recently the Northwest Regional Hospital District.

These folks are asking for you to conduct a regional risk assessment under the powers given to you by the Railway Safety Act. They want to know about the accident frequency and the responses since the year 2000. They want to know about evacuation plans of emergency response services for businesses and the public within dangerous goods evacuation zones. They want to know about the response times. They want to know about what role local fire departments will be asked to play. There are so many unanswered questions.

The Railway Safety Act, as I mentioned, gives you specific powers to conduct an inquiry into public interest matters related to rail safety. Given all of these factors, given the derailments, given the Auditor General's report, given the massive increase in dangerous goods being transported through our region, are you, as minister, willing to initiate and conduct one of these assessments?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, let me repeat what I said in my opening remarks.

Rail safety is a top priority of mine. By the way, the Auditor General's report did clearly say that Transport Canada has made meaningful and important improvements on rail safety in follow-up to the 2013 audit. I understand there is further work that needs to be done, and we are committed to doing that work. Let me mention some of the things we've done over the last few years.

We've adjusted our inspection system to risk-based inspection. Instead of inspections being transactional, they are now risk-based. There are 35,000 safety oversight activities happening every year. We've increased the number of personnel, inspectors, by almost 50%. We've increased the number of inspections. We've added new regulations regarding fatigue. We've added new regulations regarding speed control. We've added new regulations regarding hazardous materials that are being transported by train. We've made significant improvements, including to emergency braking, by the way.

We've made significant improvements. We accept the fact that this is ongoing work. There is still more that needs to be done, and let me commit to you and to my colleagues on this committee that we are committed and determined to do everything we can to maintain rail safety.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, through you to the minister, I don't deny that progress has been made, but I think most people would find it shocking, given the stakes, that after eight years not every recommendation in the original audit has been addressed. This is not acceptable.

I'd like to ask you a question, Minister, about a specific aspect of the Auditor General's report. It concerns something called safety management systems. These are systems that the companies themselves put in place. What her report shows is that Transport Canada was checking to see whether those systems existed but wasn't actually checking to see whether they ensured safety, whether they resulted in a safer environment. She called the safety management systems, quote, “a big loophole”.

What is the minister going to do to close that loophole and protect communities?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I stated earlier, we are committed to implementing the Auditor General's recommendations.

Let me also let you and my colleagues know that I met personally with the Auditor General about her report. I committed to her personally that we are going to work on these recommendations. I accept what she's recommending. I've asked my department to see if there are other jurisdictions that are doing these extra measures that the Auditor General is doing. We couldn't find any jurisdictions that we could learn from.

That does not mean Canada cannot be the first in the world to do this. We will do this, and we will make sure that rail safety is a priority for everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister Alghabra, and thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

We're now going to move to our second round.

First up for the Conservatives we have Mr. Shipley.

Mr. Shipley, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for joining us today. I know your time is valuable. We appreciate it.

Minister, I've been recently speaking with Mr. Craig Drury of the Associated Equipment Distributors. This association represents over 420 Canadian locations, over 27,000 workers and approximately $8 billion in sales. They're having a slight issue that I promised and committed to them I would relay to you.

In this industry, there is a significant use of light-duty or pickup trucks that are registered as commercial vehicles and are required to operate under the hours of service regulations similar to those for long-haul truckers. These are light-duty trucks that are a long way from being for long-haul trucking. They're used for sales, service and construction—a great difference.

The association's question is, with the electronic logging device regulations that are currently being developed in your ministry, is there an opportunity to consider that the hours of service regulations not apply to light-use trucks?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, thank you to my colleague for this question.

Let me talk first about how important it is, again, that we protect drivers and that we make sure safety remains paramount. That is one of the reasons we've implemented the electronic logging devices for truckers, for vehicles: to make sure that drivers are protected, to make sure that we avoid using written documents and to make sure that we use a seamless electronic logging devices.

This is something that the industry celebrated. This is something that the industry supported and that certainly drivers are embracing. We are now at the initial stages of rolling it out.

My colleague Mr. Shipley is asking a very specific question. I am happy to receive correspondence from him or from the company he's speaking about and to look at it, but I just want to remind him and everybody else that safety will always remain a priority for us.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Minister. This association agrees too. It's not a matter of safety with them. They are all for the electronic devices. It's more just a matter of how they've been lumped in with something and they don't really fall into that category. I will follow up with you with some written questions in regard to this and also questions from Mr. Drury. I would appreciate a response to that, and so would his association.

I'd like to move on now to the cruise ship industry.

Minister, the cruise ship industry has been decimated, as you know, through this pandemic. I'll give you some numbers and hopefully you're aware of these. In 2019 the Canadian cruise industry comprised 29,000 jobs paying $1.43 billion in wages. That same year, the industry generated a total of $4.25 billion in economic activity.

The federal government has banned cruise ships from docking in Canadian ports until February 2022, obviously greatly impacting this industry. Why has that been put out so long? The cruise industry has done everything they can possibly do to make it safe. They've enhanced all their cleaning, their medical, their inspections and their testing. Could you please explain to me when this will be lifted and how this is going to be going forward?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for this important question.

I'm quite aware that several communities benefit greatly from the business of cruise ships. When we made this decision, it was not easy, but it's consistent with all our decisions from day one.

As a government, we have told Canadians we will do whatever it takes to protect Canadians. We are in the middle of a pandemic. My colleague may recall what happened on cruise ships last year at the beginning of the pandemic, how easy it was to transmit COVID, and how difficult it was for people, but I know the industry knows this, and they are doing their best to protect future passengers.

Let me assure my colleague the reason we did this until next year is that we wanted to make sure we took the time to base our decisions on science and data. Today, infection rates and hospitalization rates are still high. We wanted to give a signal to the sector because if we said six months, they would be selling tickets two months from now, and we may have to change that decision if we discover it's too soon.

We wanted to give a sense of stability to the industry. Having said that, if data and science and public health advice tell us we are in a better place, we might be able to change that, but for now it is really important to have a clear and decisive decision for the protection of Canadians' health and safety.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Chair, do I have time for a very quick follow up on that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Not really.

[Doug Shipley, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

And here I thought you were in a good mood today, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

You just took it with that preamble. I'm sorry, Mr. Shipley, but we have to move on.

Thank you, MP Shipley, and thank you, Minister Alghabra.

We're now going to move to the Liberals.

Mr. Bittle, you're up for five minutes.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I know you discussed the Auditor General's report, but I was wondering if you would like to add anything else and advise the committee about your conclusions.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, let me take a moment to thank my colleague Chris Bittle. I am losing him as a parliamentary secretary, and I am sad to see that happen, but I'm happy for him. He's moving to the Ministry of Environment and Climate Change. Minister Wilkinson has just gained a new and incredible parliamentary secretary. I'm sad to see Mr. Bittle move on, but I'm happy for him. I have also gained an incredible parliamentary secretary.

The Auditor General's report was very important. Let me take a moment to talk about the importance of the role the Auditor General plays in our society, in our government and in our system of government.

It is important to have a watchdog who constantly assesses and re-evaluates the progress and performance of governments and other agencies. I have a huge amount of respect for the Auditor General and her team.

We accept the findings of the Auditor General. She and her team have done a good, thorough job, and she acknowledged in her report that significant improvements have already occurred. She offered six recommendations. Those recommendations are important. We are committed to implementing them as stated in the report.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Minister, is the railway system in Canada safe?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, yes.

By the way, the railway system in Canada is the longest in the world. It carries the fifth-most volume in the world, especially during this year. Because of COVID and the adjustments in our economy, the traffic and the volume the railway system has been carrying have seen a significant increase, yet we have seen railway workers, railway companies, shippers all step up and play their role.

We are seeing improvements in accident rates. Having said that, we should not stop pursuing and enhancing safety. As long as we have one accident, one is too many.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Minister, how does Transport Canada intend to measure the effectiveness of Transport Canada's rail safety oversight program?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, we typically measure safety through the measurements of the transactions or the number of accidents that happen per volume. When you compare the number of accidents per volume, you see a decrease.

The Auditor General has also made some recommendations about doing another layer of assessment based on risk safety management, so we will be looking at adding other measures and other layers of assessments of our safety.

Let me repeat that our system is safe. It's world class and the world looks to Canada's safety system as an example.