Evidence of meeting #23 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Michael MacPherson
Michael Keenan  Deputy Minister, Department of Transport
Kevin Brosseau  Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Anuradha Marisetti  Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs, Department of Transport

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Good afternoon, folks. It's a pleasure to be here today. We're looking forward to a great meeting.

Welcome to meeting number 23 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

Today's meeting, as you all know, is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So you are all aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee. To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few points.

First off, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. At the bottom or your screen, you have the choice of floor, English or French.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking, as well as health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute your mike. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

I would remind you that all comments by members or witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. With regard to a speaking list, as always, the committee clerk and I will do our very best to maintain the order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Members, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the committee will now commence its consideration of the main estimates 2021-22.

It's my pleasure now to introduce and welcome our witnesses.

March 25th, 2021 / 3:30 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, could I raise a point of order before we get into discussing estimates?

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

You can when I'm finished my initial comments.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Okay. I know we often just roll right into it, so I just wanted to....

Thank you.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

When I finish my initial comments, Mr. Bachrach, you'll be more than welcome.

Once again, I'd like to welcome and introduce our witnesses.

First off, we have the Honourable Omar Alghabra appearing from 3:30 to 4:30. Omar is the Minister of Transport. He'll be followed by members of his team. From the Department of Transport, we have Michael Keenan, deputy minister; Craig Hutton, director general, strategic policy; Anuradha Marisetti, assistant deputy minister, programs; Kevin Brosseau, assistant deputy minister, safety and security; Ryan Pilgrim, chief financial officer and assistant deputy minister, corporate services; and Michael DeJong, director general, rail safety.

With that, and before I go to the witnesses, I will ask Mr. Bachrach to raise his point of order.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and my apologies for the interruption.

It's wonderful to see the minister at our committee, as always, but I must say that I'm a little bit confused about the process. This committee passed a motion to invite the minister and the Auditor General to appear at committee for one hour each on the topic of rail safety before March 25. I know the minister was already scheduled to appear on estimates, but the committee had an interest in asking questions specific to rail safety.

Perhaps, through you to the clerk, we could confirm that the invitation as articulated in the committee's motion was presented to the minister and that the minister declined to appear at committee specifically on the topic of rail safety.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Mr. Clerk.

3:30 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Michael MacPherson

The invitations were sent out pursuant to both of the motions that were adopted by the committee. The Auditor General has agreed to an appearance on April 13 and the minister has agreed to appear today. You would have to speak to the minister as to which topic he would like to speak to, understanding the main estimates do cover the entire portfolio.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

Mr. Bachrach.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the clerk for the clarification.

I would like to express my disappointment because we had hoped to have a conversation at today's meeting specifically about rail safety. I have a lot of other questions related to estimates that I would like to ask the minister and time is always very short.

Therefore, knowing the AG is coming to answer our questions on rail safety, I would like to make a motion that we invite the minister to appear on the same day to address our questions regarding rail safety for the duration of one hour.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

I will entertain that motion once it's provided to the committee in both official languages, as well as the notice is given.

We'll move on to now to Ms. Jaczek.

Ms. Jaczek, you had a question.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Thank you, Chair.

In the spirit of collaboration and so on, I was simply going to offer to Mr. Bachrach part of my time during the rotations for him to have some extra time to question the minister as he sees fits. That's just something I would like to offer Mr. Bachrach.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Thank you very kindly, Ms. Jaczek.

Mr. Bittle.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

I know Mr. Bachrach and I know he didn't intend it, but it may have come across as a suggestion that the clerk wasn't doing his job properly. I just want to point out that he's been an excellent asset and has really moved this committee forward in my time here. I know this may be my last meeting in front of the committee, but it has been well run with his help.

I've never seen an objection to the minister attending with the minister sitting right in front of us. We're having a debate and the time is limited. I appreciate that you may want the two people together for Facebook or TV purposes, but both have agreed to appear. We have them. The Auditor General will appear later, so I guess I'm lost as to what the basis for the objection is, other than for objection's sake, I guess.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Thank you, Mr. Bittle.

Mr. Bachrach, quickly, because we are chewing into—

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Very briefly, Mr. Chair, I certainly didn't mean to imply that there was anything nefarious going on or that the clerk had provided other than the best service to this committee, as he has from the beginning.

Simply, the hope was to have the minister for one hour solely on the topic of rail safety. He's appearing today for an hour on estimates. That's appreciated. It's a very broad topic and we have lots of questions. The intention of the committee was pretty clear in the motion that we passed previously. My hope is that the minister will return to the committee alongside the Auditor General to answer questions on rail safety.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Now we're going to move on to the minister.

Minister Alghabra, welcome. It's great to have you back. You were here a few weeks ago. The floor is yours for five minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Mississauga Centre Ontario

Liberal

Omar Alghabra LiberalMinister of Transport

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Colleagues, good afternoon.

Thank you for inviting me here today to present our main estimates.

I am pleased to be joined today, as you mentioned, by representatives from Transport Canada: Michael Keenan, deputy minister of transport; Ryan Pilgrim, assistant deputy minister, corporate services, and chief financial officer; Kevin Brosseau, assistant deputy minister, safety and security; Anuradha Marisetti, assistant deputy minister, programs; Craig Hutton, assistant deputy minister, policy; and Mike DeJong, director general, rail safety.

Despite the challenges of the global COVID-19 pandemic, transportation workers across all modes have continued to deliver food, medicine and other vital goods to Canadians throughout the crisis. Transport Canada employees have also helped make this possible by introducing a range of measures and guidance to protect those working in the transportation and shipping sectors. All of the department's work has been informed by the latest science and data as well as the guidance of public health agencies.

As Minister of Transport, I have had the pleasure of working with Transport Canada and the other organizations in the federal transportation portfolio for a couple of months now. Officials at all levels have been working tirelessly to support me in my new role, and I have been incredibly impressed by their talent and dedication. I welcome this opportunity to highlight some of that work.

Transport Canada's mandate is to ensure that our transportation system is safe and secure, efficient, green and innovative. The department's planned expenditures in the main estimates for 2021-22 cover a range of important measures to maintain a safe and secure transportation system while keeping people and goods moving.

The total expenditures fall under four categories. They are as follows: $912 million under efficient transportation; $480 million under green and innovative transportation system; $445 million under safe and secure transportation; and $215 million for internal services. Among these items, Transport Canada is requesting $229 million in transfer payments to continue the incentive program for zero-emission vehicles. This program encourages consumers to stimulate the economy by helping them purchase zero-emission vehicles, accelerating their adoption while greening our economy.

Rail safety is also a priority of mine, so I am also requesting more than $21 million in transfer payments for the rail safety improvement program, which will further enhance rail safety across Canada. I would also like to highlight some amounts for federal agencies and Crown corporations within my portfolio. These estimates include $770 million for VIA Rail. This funding is higher than that in last year's main estimates primarily due to extended funding provided to stabilize VIA's operations and support longer-term capital planning. These funds will modernize VIA's service offering through fleet renewal, improve safety with track infrastructure enhancements, and keep its asset base in a state of good repair.

The Canadian Air Transport Security Authority is seeking $568 million. This will ensure the authority can continue to deliver effective, consistent and high-quality security screening of air travellers and their baggage.

Marine Atlantic Inc. is seeking $150 million to support its year-round, constitutionally mandated ferry and seasonal ferry service. This represents an increase of $7 million in operating and capital funding.

Finally, the Federal Bridge Corporation Limited is requesting $18.5 million in emergency support to offset the COVID-19 pandemic revenue shortfall.

I would now like to turn to the Auditor General's follow-up audit of Transport Canada's oversight of rail safety. The report, which I welcomed in February, focused on select elements of the Auditor General's 2013 audit. Transport Canada has acknowledged the findings of this year's report and is committed to the continuous improvement of our rail safety program. As I mentioned, safety is my most important priority.

We are already working to address all of the Auditor General's recommendations to further improve the effectiveness of our safety oversight. As we focus on the future and building back better, the transportation sector will be vital to Canada's economic recovery. I am confident that the investments outlined in these main estimates will help advance a transportation system that is safer, cleaner and more competitive.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable members, for the opportunity to speak to you today.

I would now be happy to answer any questions you have.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey

Thank you, Minister Alghabra.

We're now going to move to our first round of questions.

We're going to start off with the Conservatives, with Ms. Kusie for six minutes, followed by Ms. Jaczek for six minutes, Mr. Barsalou-Duval and Mr. Bachrach, once again for six minutes each.

Ms. Kusie, the floor is yours.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Good afternoon, Minister. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Yesterday unfortunately was an anniversary and not a good one. It was a year ago yesterday, on March 24, 2020, that your former colleague, the finance minister at that time, Bill Morneau, told the House of Commons that they “will work with the various sectors to ensure that they have access to the funds needed during this crisis. That will certainly be the case for the aerospace industry.”

It's now one year later, Minister, and now our pilots, our flight attendants and all other aviation workers are still waiting.

Minister, I've asked you this many times before, and I am asking you again today: How much longer do these suffering workers need to wait before we see support for the sector?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON

Mr. Chair, let me go over what our government has done since the beginning of the pandemic. We made a decision from the beginning to roll out direct support to Canadians in broad-based programs that offered support to Canadians, through the emergency wage subsidy, through CERB, and through, by the way, support for small business and support for highly affected large businesses. Those programs worked and helped many Canadians.

With the arrival of the second wave in the fall and then the introduction of variants, we needed to add extra measures for travel to protect the health and safety of Canadians. We recognize that, because of those additional measures, we need to work on direct support for the airlines. We are currently in discussions with major airlines to provide customized support for the Canadian airline sector.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Thank you, Minister, for that response.

I think it's very unfortunate, and I believe the stakeholders I have talked to in the airline sector would agree that their sector, and beyond their sector, has been used as a scapegoat and as a punching bag for your government's inability to manage this pandemic.

Speaking of stakeholders, this is a quote from last month from the CEO of WestJet. During the course of the decision by the government not to provide funding for WestJet or Air Canada, “we have lost 23% market share to international carriers, and I think that is disgraceful.”

I am not alone, Minister, in feeling that the way this entire sector has been treated is disgraceful.

Many countries provided sector-specific aid to their airline sectors in May and June of last year, almost a year ago, Minister. Why is Canada at least nine months behind the rest of the world in supporting our aviation sector?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON

Mr. Chair, my colleague is correct that other countries have made different decisions at different times. We, as the Government of Canada, made a decision to offer immediate support for Canadians, for workers, for small business and for large businesses that were hard hit.

I recognize the additional level of anxiety of workers in the aviation sector. We are working on reaching a customized package for the airline sector.

Let me say to the workers of the aviation sector that I hear them and I know about their anxiety. We're working with our colleagues at the Department of Finance and the Department of Industry and with other stakeholders to find a resolution through this package. Hopefully it will be coming soon.

Let me just say this. The Conservatives can't have it both ways. They can't say they are against big government programs and then say, “Oh, we want this government program.” They can't say, “The government is spending too much money” and then turn around and say, “The government should spend more money.”

Let me say to the workers of the aviation sector that it is the Liberal government that's going to provide support, that has already been providing support and that will continue to provide support. The Conservatives are the ones who are playing political games with this.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

They've been waiting for a year now, Minister. Unfortunately, this is not the only area in which your government is failing. Labour negotiations at the port of Montreal are ongoing, and many fear that a strike is imminent. Industry is having to divert shipments as well as face delays. What are you doing to ensure the port remains operational and that these goods make their way to Canadian markets?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga Centre, ON

Mr. Chair, I agree with my colleague about the importance of the role that the port of Montreal plays for our economy and for Canadians. We are concerned about this ongoing uncertainty that exists with labour negotiations.

As my friend the Minister of Labour said today in question period—I know my colleague asked her a question—we are very much involved in the ongoing discussions. We've been providing support through mediators. We've been encouraging the parties to reach a settlement. We know that this is an important file. We will do everything we can, but again, here's where I disagree with the Conservatives. We believe in the collective bargaining process. We want the parties to reach an agreement and we'll do everything we can to help them get there.