Transport Committee on April 22nd, 2021

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Equity is a really important consideration. When we invest money in infrastructure, we need to make sure it's invested for everyone and that everyone gets an opportunity.

I think equity needs to be looked at broadly. If you're disabled, you should still be able to access cycling paths or walking or active transportation of all sorts. That also means investments in rural areas. Sometimes we forget about investing in rural areas. I hear that from rural areas all the time. They want to make sure they're getting access to these investments. I think there's a whole range of folks that you need to be thinking about. My focus is that every investment we make improves the quality of life for all Canadians—

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister—

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

and I will say that we didn't have a chance to say that there's a historic infrastructure gap with indigenous peoples that we're working hard to address as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Fillmore, for speaking like a true planner. Well done.

We're now going to move on to the Bloc.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities.

In an interview with Radio-Canada, the hon. member Jean-Yves Duclos mentioned that the government could decide in two, three or four years to reinvest in VIA Rail for the HFR project. It would be a way of promising the HFR, or at least making it look like the government still intends to carry out the project.

However, when a government believes in a project and commits to it, it doesn't drag it out for 10, 15 or 20 years. Normally, you start to see results after two, three or four years. We've seen that with many other projects. In the case of the HFR, it seems to be going around and around. At the end of the day, it's a non-starter.

Madam Minister can you just tell us how many elections you intend to use the HFR like a rattle, instead of being honest with us and telling us that you won't be carrying out the high-frequency rail project, that you promised to win votes in the last election?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Go ahead, Minister.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You can read my mandate letter and that of the Minister of Transport. It makes it very clear that high-frequency rail is part of our mandate. We invested $500 million in the VIA Rail project. As I said, there is work to be done. We need to look at the technology, the routes, the cost and the role of the Canada Infrastructure Bank. This is a project that is very important to our government. I said so. The President of the Treasury Board, Mr. Duclos said so. Minister Champagne said so. Minister Alghabra said so. The Prime Minister said so. So I don't think we could be any clearer.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Nor do I think it's any clearer that the government doesn't really have the will to carry out the project. What we're seeing is that the government is announcing crumbs. I'm not saying that $500 million is peanuts. You'll agree, however, that there's a long way to go if such an amount is paid out over six years, in $100 million increments, when studies have already been carried out for years. It's clear that the government doesn't have the political will to move the project forward.

What disappoints me is that the government doesn't have the honesty to tell Canadians that it no longer intends to proceed with the project. Instead, it announces crumbs to try to keep hope alive. I find this deeply cynical because, in 10, 15 or 20 years, the government will still be promising people this infamous HFR, but they will no longer believe it and will be disillusioned. I don't understand why you continue to do this. If you're going to commit, you have to commit for real.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Please make a short response, Minister.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Major infrastructure projects take time to plan because we want them to be succeed. I recognize how important the HFR project is to the hon. member, but also to Quebeckers, Ontarians and all Canadians. We are investing $500 million, which is no small amount. As I said, we have to plan. It's important with a major project. We're moving forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

We're now going to move on to Mr. Bachrach for two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'd like to ask you a question about the school districts. As I'm sure you're aware, school districts face challenges when it comes to decarbonizing their operations.

I have a couple of quick stories from my home province of British Columbia. The Greater Victoria School District renovated Vic High, the high school in Victoria, but instead of putting in a renewable energy heating and cooling system, they went with a gas furnace. Their argument was that insufficient funding was made available. They declared a climate emergency in 2019. The Cowichan school district likewise declared a climate emergency in 2020. They want to replace all their school buses with electric versions, yet they were only able to secure funding for one school bus, through the province. They would like to convert their entire fleet.

Recently you created a $1.5-billion program for building retrofits, whereby cities can access those funds directly without going through the provinces. Would you consider creating a similar program that would allow school districts to apply for funding from the federal government?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

It's good that you noted we funded retrofits for schools under the COVID-19 stream. We don't normally do that, I'll be clear, because that's in provincial jurisdiction, and we certainly respect provincial jurisdiction, although the exception to that is school buses; we have a commitment to 5,000 zero-emission buses, including school buses, which I think is a real opportunity.

We do give money directly to municipalities through the renamed gas tax, the Canada Community-Building Fund. We do believe there is an important role for the province to be funding schools and to be making those investments. We will step in, in certain cases.

To your broader point, I truly get it. I think we need everyone to be part of the solution on climate change. It was great to see B.C.'s new Clean BC plan. I think that's a really great plan and a great example of a province that is committed to climate action and to increasing ambition. We just announced a new target and we need new ambition across the board. B.C. has really stepped up to do that. I know how much folks care about this in B.C., including kids at schools.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Bachrach, you may ask a quick question.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, last July, as part of the Safe Restart Agreement , your government provided $2 billion to support municipalities and $2.3 billion towards transit systems. Nine months later, we're hearing from municipalities that are going to be running out of federal support for their operating costs. We're also hearing from transit authorities that are going to be struggling with the operating costs associated with transit. Are you willing to provide further emergency funding to get municipalities and transit systems through the pandemic?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You were referencing the Safe Restart Agreement. That was a really important agreement with provinces and territories, and it included flowing money to municipalities to support operating expenses for municipalities. As we've said that, we also doubled the Canada Community-Building Fund, which was critically important, and when we announced the Safe Restart, we said that is a start. We constantly reassess. The Prime Minister has been clear that we will always have the backs of Canadians, including Canadian municipalities.

As Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, I feel I am the minister who's the biggest cheerleader for municipalities. I recognize the challenging time. As I say, we doubled the gas tax. We've been flowing money directly to municipalities, including through the Canada Community-Building Fund, including a number of different initiatives. We're going to continue providing the support. I can't provide exact details right now on that, but I know that I have heard from folks how important that is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister McKenna, and thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

This brings us to 4:35, Minister McKenna, so thank you for your time today. Well done.

To all the members, thank you for your interventions today. Very well done.

Mr. Clerk, do we need some time to do sound checks and therefore suspend for a couple of minutes...?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Michael MacPherson]

Yes. We'll need to suspend for about a minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister McKenna.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you. Goodbye.

I wish you a happy Earth Day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister McKenna.

Mr. Clerk, I'll suspend for a couple of minutes so we can do some sound checks for our witnesses for the second part of today's meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

We're going to move right into questioning.

First off, once again, we have witnesses from the Office of Infrastructure of Canada: Ms. Gillis once again, Ms. Bertrand, Mr. Campbell, Ms. O'Leary and Mr. Peets.

We're going to go right into the questions. I understand that there are no presentations to be made. With that, we're going to start off with Mr. Scheer for this round.

Mr. Scheer, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair .

I wonder if I could direct the officials' attention to the 2021-22 departmental plan. I have a few questions as it relates to the targets and results indicators going back over the last few years.

On page 11, under the heading “Planned results for Public Infrastructure and Communities Investments”, there is a “Departmental result indicator”—“2.1.2: Number of transactions and amount of private investment in public infrastructure”. The target is set at “250 projects”. The date the department has given itself to achieve that is “March 31, 2022”, a little less than a year away.

Then, for all the years going back to 2017, the department says “not available”. Was this just not available at the time of printing? Could officials shed some light on how many projects fell short of the department's target or where they came in? I'm looking for some clarity as to why this information seems to be missing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Go ahead, Ms. Gillis.

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The departmental plan for 2021-22 has new indicators. We look at our infrastructure programming overall and we look at the types of indicators that we would like to track and monitor going forward. That's why it's prospective on this type of report, but we haven't gone backwards in that regard. We look at the types of investments that we're making in infrastructure, and although we are an investor overall, there are important types of procurement that support infrastructure, such as P3s and different ways to bring in the private sector.

If you like, I can have Glenn Campbell, who works on alternative financing, expand a little further.