Transport Committee on Nov. 19th, 2020

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you, Chair, for the question.

For that particular question, it depends on the type of project. If we are doing a project that requires a Treasury Board submission—at this point, anything under $100 million does not require a Treasury Board submission and anything over $100 million requires us to go to Treasury Board—we need a full business case. So we need to understand the schedule, costing, risk, environmental assessment, the duty to consult, understanding the outcomes of what that particular project is going to attain and how it actually aligns to the terms and conditions of the particular program, as well as the ask that it has within the allocation. As we have integrated bilateral agreements right now with the provinces and territories—and all of those amounts are public—the province has to determine how much of that allocation it wants to use for that particular project.

When we're doing a Treasury Board submission, it is a full, quite substantive business case, similar to what would be undertaken within a province or a territory. If there is a project that is under $100 million and it requires the minister's authority, then for each particular program there is a set amount of data that's required to determine eligibility and alignment with the terms and conditions.

With our integrated bilateral agreements, we've created a portal. It's very clear on the data sets that are required where a Treasury Board submission is not required.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Okay, thanks very much for that answer.

As you know, Deputy Minister, my background is as a city planner for several decades. I understand the complexities of large-scale infrastructure projects, and the detailed planning and business cases that are required to proceed so that they're not throwing money away. Rather, it's money being invested wisely.

You mentioned the IBAs. Let's just go there for a moment, if we could. The ICP has these complex and negotiated bilateral agreements that respect the authority and jurisdiction of the provinces. They also respect their knowledge about knowing what their priorities are on the ground in those respective provinces.

What is the role? Can you just tell us about the role of the provinces as we release money to these infrastructure projects across the country?

[Kelly Gillis]

As you articulated, the integrated bilateral agreements are about national outcomes, but respecting local priority-setting. Once the integrated bilateral agreements have been signed and agreed with all provinces and territories, which for the IBAs was $33 billion, then each province and territory is creating—because there is a cost-sharing element to this—its own programs, its own intake process within its jurisdiction, and determining how that would go forward, as well as then, when it receives the projects, prioritizing which projects would be coming forward to us.

Each province within each stream is determining the time frame of when it is actually opening its intake process. It is making the evaluation of which projects should proceed and the determination of how much of its allocation will be used for each project, and then submitting to us the application. At that point in time, once we receive the complete application, we review it for due diligence from the various components, as I mentioned, for the data inputs and if there's a requirement for such things like a climate lens so that it's completed at the appropriate time. Then we put the application up for ministerial approval. If it's over $100 million, it would be a more collaborative process for the information that would be required to submit a Treasury Board submission to our Treasury Board.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Gillis.

Mr. Fillmore.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you.

Are we done, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

No, you have about a minute and a half.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Oh, wonderful.

Thank you, Deputy Minister.

Of course, the journey of a project from the municipal proponent through the provincial government—through its prioritization process—up to the due diligence required by Infrastructure is a necessarily detailed one because, of course, we're in the business of accountability and getting good projects built. Thanks for that description.

In the time we have left, I'd like to turn to transit and active transportation. I wonder if you could characterize the experience of the department of infrastructure's increased demand and, I guess, surface area with the world of active transportation, and how that landscape is changing in terms of demand in the projects that we're seeing.

[Kelly Gillis]

Certainly. I think active transportation is an area for which we are, especially during this pandemic, seeing the import increasing. Within our COVID stream that I mentioned before, there are certain eligible categories. That active transportation we put in as an eligible category. For that particular stream, we are actually paying 80¢ on the dollar so that we can support, hopefully, more active transportation coming through. It is subject to the same process where provinces and territories have an intake process and prioritize projects to us.

Within our funding so far within active transportation, we have funded, for example, 225 kilometres of bike paths and a number of the supporting infrastructure elements that go with it. It has been something that has been seen as important infrastructure for the well-being and health of Canadians.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Fantastic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Gillis.

Thank you, Mr. Fillmore.

We're now going to move to Mr. Barsalou-Duval for six minutes.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My question goes to Ms. Gillis.

In the last year, can you tell us the proportion of infrastructure investments in Quebec to those in the rest of Canada?

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you for your question.

To date, we have approved 1,144 projects in Quebec for a total of $6.5 billion. As for bilateral agreements, the amount allocated is $7.5 billion. For that program, 289 projects have been approved and announced for a total of about $3 billion. Those are the amounts invested in Quebec to date

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Do you have the figures as a proportion of those for the rest of Canada?

[Kelly Gillis]

I do not have that information at the moment, but we could send it to you.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much. We greatly appreciate it.

My next question is about the Canada Infrastructure Bank. How long has it been in place?

[Kelly Gillis]

The Canada Infrastructure Bank Act was introduced in 2017. Much work has subsequently been done to create the Infrastructure Bank and bring it into force. In 2019, the first CEO was in place.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

How many CEOs have there been since its inception?

[Kelly Gillis]

The second one—Ehren Cory—was announced a few weeks ago. He comes from Infrastructure Ontario.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Are there any reasons for the quick departure of the former CEO, who was in the position for about a year? I can understand that everyone has professional challenges, but when you're creating an organization, you do a lot of research into the positions that need to be filled. In general, when the incumbent of a position leaves quickly after an organization is created, it may not have been the right choice.

In fact, we have many questions about the validity and relevance of this organization. Does the instability in the management of the Infrastructure Bank demonstrate this lack of relevance?

[Kelly Gillis]

The Infrastructure Bank is an independent organization managed by an independent board of directors. I can't comment on the decisions of senior management.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

The projects in which the Infrastructure Bank has invested to date are almost all public projects led by municipalities or provinces.

Could you give me examples of cases where you've been able to get non-public investments?

I'm wondering about the relevance of creating a bank that is supposed to attract private investment, something we don't agree on since we're not in favour of privatizing infrastructure. Concretely, we could very well have set up another program. Why is the bank necessary, if it's only a question of financing projects that could have been financed otherwise by private programs?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Ms. Gillis.

[Kelly Gillis]

The Infrastructure Bank is a model put in place by the government with the goal of having more infrastructure investment for the benefit of all Canadians, one that

the owner of the public institution remains

and so that there is more private sector investment in our infrastructure.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Actually, that doesn't really answer my question, but I accept your answers. I understand that you don't necessarily have all the answers. In the end, if we aren't able to support the relevance of the bank, this could be the answer to my question.

The COVID-19 pandemic highlighted a major problem with Internet access, especially in the regions. Could you tell me what your government has done about this problem in recent months?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Ms. Gillis, we need a quick answer.