Transport Committee on Dec. 1st, 2020

[Scott Streiner]

Mr. Chair, I'm not sure about that email. I haven't seen the email. It's not in front of me.

The office of the Minister of Transport would not have been privy to the internal decision-making processes at the CTA, and I would simply reiterate that every statement—non-binding—that's made by the CTA, every guidance document is a reflection of institutional guidance and of course is reviewed by senior members of the organization.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Streiner, will you commit to providing this committee with all internal documents, memos and emails concerning the March 25 statement on vouchers and the subsequent clarification?

[Scott Streiner]

The CTA is subject to the same access to information rules as any other organization. We have a policy of transparency, and so we try to come forward. I will commit to certainly providing the committee with those documents that it's appropriate to provide, but we are a quasi-judicial tribunal, an independent regulator, and certain material is privileged.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The challenge here, Mr. Streiner, as I'm sure you can guess from this line of questioning, is that as a quasi-judicial body, the CTA is in a position to fairly and without prejudice adjudicate these complaints that have come in from air passengers. Does this statement on vouchers not prejudice that process? This very clearly sets out the outcome of those complaints related to refunds. You've already said that it's reasonable, so why adjudicate the specific complaint if you've already said that it's a reasonable approach?

[Scott Streiner]

I want to give a very clear response to this question. The non-binding statement on vouchers was issued in order to protect passengers from ending up with nothing at all as a result of this situation, in part because of the legislative gap that I spoke about earlier. Nothing in that non-binding statement in any way affected or affects the rights of anybody who brings a complaint before us. The Federal Court of Appeal has already recognized that passengers' rights aren't affected. Right in the body of the statement, we said that every complaint would be considered on its merit. Every complaint will be considered on its merit, impartially, based on the evidence and the law.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Streiner and Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you to the witnesses.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Yes, go ahead.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I'd like to put forward a motion about what was discussed. Is it possible to do that now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Go ahead.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

That's perfect, Mr. Chair.

Actually, I'd like to put forward a motion that has already been tabled at committee on October 26. The motion is as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), an Order of the Committee do issue for correspondence between Transport Canada, including the Minister of Transport and his staff, and the Canadian Transportation Agency regarding cancelled plane tickets and the right of air passengers to be reimbursed, and that these documents be provided to the Committee Clerk within 15 days following the adoption of this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Okay, I'm assuming, Mr. Barsalou-Duval, that this is the motion you presented a few days ago, which you distributed.

Do you want to put on the table right now?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Mr. Chair, it is not the motion on Air Transat, it's actually the one about the Canadian Transportation Agency. So it's a different motion and it pertains to today's meeting.

The motion I have just read to you has already been introduced, but the committee has not discussed it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Clerk, does the committee have a copy of that motion?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Michael MacPherson]

I'm just going to double-check, but I do believe that it was distributed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Members, while we check, I would like to get some clarification from Mr. Hanson regarding Mr. Soroka's question, even though this might not be the norm for a chair to do. Mr. Soroka asked a question about travel agents, and it's within this committee's interest. The importance of this issue has been discussed previously, too, by members of the committee because sometimes it can fall through the cracks, or these folks, travel agents, maybe seemed to have fallen through the cracks. I thought Mr. Soroka brought up a great point, a great question, with respect to that. I just want to get clarity from you to declare the travel agents.... Do you see them in a similar way as you would see the passengers who are unable to get refunds?

[Lawrence Hanson]

Thanks. It's a very fair question, Mr. Chair. I don't know if I'm in a position where I could declare that it would be policy to see them as analogous. That would be for someone other than me. I think what I can say is that the reality is that a mass kind of series of refunds done all at the same time would have implications for those travel agents. I think we need to understand that better, but I think I would kind of be creating policy on the fly to say that it is analogous to something else. I think I would really just be saying that we absolutely recognize that this issue is a consequence of the refund issue and that we have to be looking at it. I'm sorry that I can't be more precise than that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Hanson.

Thank you to all of the other witnesses too.

We're now going to suspend for five minutes. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

We have that notice of motion by Mr. Barsalou-Duval that was distributed Monday, October 26, 2020.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, is that the motion you are putting on the floor?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Mr. Clerk, I am going to be asking for a vote by the committee to actually debate this now, as it is now being placed on the floor.

Members of the committee, Mr. Barsalou-Duval wishes to place this on the floor for debate. I'll take it, first of all, as a motion to debate it. First off, I'm going to be asking for a vote to place it on the floor for debate. All those in favour?

The clerk is telling me that we don't need a vote to get it on the floor. That's fine.

Debate has begun for this motion. Mr. Barsalou-Duval, I'll give you the floor.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

The discussions we had today with the official from the Canadian Transportation Agency actually support the reason why this motion was introduced. The goal of the motion is to better understand where the agency's statement on travel credits came from. It will tell us what interaction it had with the government and whether any directives were given during those interactions. Specifically, it would be helpful to find out whether there was a desire on the government's part to influence a judicial or quasi-judicial tribunal. That would be most unwelcome.

This is something that has an impact on thousands of families. Thousands of dollars are at stake. This has been a highly publicized issue. I hope that all members of the committee will want to obtain that information.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

I will now go to Mr. Sidhu.

Mr. Sidhu, you have the floor.