Transport Committee on March 19th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Wilson.

Thank you very much, Mr. Muys.

Next we have Ms. Murray.

Ms. Murray, the floor is yours. You have five minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

Congratulations on Air Canada's leadership on the Sunflower program. I was happy to hear that. As well, Mr. Rousseau commented about how we need to get better, especially with respect to process changes and training. Third, there is a commitment to being a leader in accessible travel and employment on your website.

Mr. Rousseau, what are the metrics for being a leader in accessible travel and employment that you have identified, and within what timeframe are you aiming to achieve them?

[Michael Rousseau]

Thank you for the question.

Certainly from a customer perspective, we are looking at two areas. First, obviously, is the number of complaints as a percentage of the number of customers travelling with disabilities and continuing to improve that year over year. The second area we are exploring is looking at doing some surveys of our customers with disabilities. As you heard, Kerianne speaks to many customers, but we would like to speak to as many as possible to get their feedback. The scoring of that survey would also be an internal benchmark to let us know how we're doing and, more importantly, how we are improving. That's certainly from a customer perspective.

From an employee perspective, one of the measures we look at is the percentage of management who have a disability. We measure that internally. We ask our employees for that information. It's probably under-reported. Today, roughly 5% of our management group has a self-declared disability. I think that's another important measure from an internal perspective.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for mentioning that, because that is my second question.

How many of your personnel and contractors in the training activities—whether design, planning or delivery—are persons with disabilities? Of course, they would naturally have an affinity with the trainees and probably be effective.

[Michael Rousseau]

Again, thank you for the question.

I don't have the exact details with respect to how many training staff have self-declared disabilities. I can tell you that overall at Air Canada roughly 2.2% of our staff of 39,000 employees have a self-declared disability. We think that's under-reported. It is higher than the average for the air transportation area, which I believe is roughly 1.9%.

I can certainly get back to you with information specific to training staff, the people who are involved in training others, and how many of those people have a self-declared disability.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

Congratulations on having that be something that you measure.

To what degree do you have goals in your hiring? What are your objectives in terms of percentage of personnel at Air Canada with accessibility challenges?

[Michael Rousseau]

Here at Air Canada we have a very strong DEI program that looks to improve hiring practices to ensure that we have strong representation of all minority groups, including those with disabilities.

I don't have all the statistics right in front of me. We do measure ourselves against the greater air transportation industry on all of the DEI dimensions. As far as I remember, we are currently doing okay, but we need to get better. There will be changes to hiring processes to ensure that we do get better.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

My last question on that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Unfortunately, Ms. Murray, we don't have time for another question.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Ms. Murray.

Thank you, Mr. Rousseau.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Rousseau, I must confess that I'm disappointed by your response, despite your announcements. Air Canada's commitment seems serious, or at least Air Canada seems to have realized the need to address shortcomings in service for people with disabilities.

That said, people are taking legal action because they simply want respect for their human dignity. It's odd to see the unwillingness to respond to orders from government agencies that ensure that the system has a modicum of efficiency.

I think that Air Canada is conveying a strange message. I can't say that I'm satisfied with your answer to my last question.

Before wrapping up, since I don't have much time, I also wanted to address another topic.

Not long ago, the Commissioner of Official Languages tabled a report showing, for example, that he assessed about 30 complaints against Air Canada and made recommendations concerning service in French. Serving customers properly also means serving them in French. Yet we learned that Air Canada failed to implement any of these recommendations.

I gather that you're learning French. However, shouldn't it go without saying that Air Canada must implement the recommendations made by the Commissioner of Official Languages? Shouldn't it go without saying that the Canadian Transportation Agency's orders must be followed?

[Michael Rousseau]

I'll address the second part first.

Certainly, we're very proud to support both official languages and to be the only carrier in Canada that provides services in both official languages. This area, obviously, is very important to us, as is accessibility, but they are different. We will read the commissioner's recommendations, and we will have a discussion with the commissioner as to what we think of those recommendations, but that is a completely different course of action versus accessibility.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rousseau.

Next, we have Mr. Bachrach for two and a half minutes, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Wilson, I know Mr. Lepofsky provided you with a brief prior to this meeting. In that brief, there are 19 recommendations from his organization, the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance.

Have you had a chance to review the 19 recommendations?

[Kerianne Wilson]

Yes, I have. As was alluded to before—perhaps that was in a private conversation—Mr. Lepofsky and I have known each other for a couple of years. It was great to hear from him. I appreciated the heads-up on the brief.

It was only yesterday, so I did read them over. There are some that we have already started working on, so it was quite encouraging to see that we're aligned. The best way to accomplish something real and exciting in accessibility is to work hand in hand with the disability community.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Rousseau, there are other jurisdictions that have stronger regulations, in some respects, when it comes to people with disabilities. For instance, the committee has heard that in the United States, all of the complaints that are submitted to airlines are handed over to the federal regulator. In Canada, there's no such obligation, so we essentially have to take your word for it, when it comes to complaints data, and every airline reports it differently. We know there are many instances that go unreported. This is what we've heard from disability advocates.

Should Canada not have a system of reporting and transparency that's at least as strong as that in the United States?

[Michael Rousseau]

I think that's a worthwhile venture to explore. Obviously, there would have to be some conditions around this. How is the data put together? It has to be consistent, not just across the airline industry but also across other industries that provide customers with disabilities the ability to travel. It's unfair to point out only the airline industry. There should be others included in that, if we want a full view of customers with disabilities who want to travel.

As with safety, the information that's provided must be provided in a non-punitive manner. Our joint objective here should be to improve the travel experience for customers with disabilities. That information should be transparent to all, and new initiatives will come out of that information that will improve travel. Being non-punitive is also a very important aspect.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Rousseau.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

We have eight minutes left, and I'll split the difference.

Mr. Strahl, you have four minutes for your questioning, please.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to use my time to move a motion that members of the committee would have received on Friday.

The motion states:

Given that:

(a) There is very limited transit infrastructure in rural Canada.

(b) Electric vehicles are often not a feasible option in rural Canada.

(c) Rural Canadians often have no other option than to drive gas and diesel-powered vehicles in order to commute and operate their businesses.

(d) The Liberal government plans to increase the carbon tax by 23% on April 1st.

The committee report to the House that it recognizes the disproportionate impact that the carbon tax has on rural Canadians and calls on the Liberal government to spike the hike and axe the tax.

Mr. Chair, this is one of two meetings that we have in the entire month. It's one of the last meetings before that 23% carbon tax hike comes into effect on April 1. We know that we do have Minister Guilbeault coming before the committee to explain his “no more new roads” policy, which will also have a disproportionate impact on rural Canada. We think that we can have a vote on this motion to send a strong message from this committee that we believe that the government's 23% carbon tax hike will have a disproportionate impact on rural Canadians. We don't want to see that happen, so I think this is a good opportunity for members, especially those of us who represent rural Canadians, to let our views be known and send that message back to the government.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Strahl.

Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I disagree. I think it is bad timing on the part of Conservatives to bring up such a motion. We're trying to concentrate on the disability community, as well as Air Canada, to deal with an issue that has been front of mind for many people throughout the past few years, especially because of the latest incident.

Mr. Chairman, I don't think we have time for that today. I think we want to stick to the issues at hand that this meeting is here for. Maybe Mr. Strahl wants to entertain that at a more appropriate time.

I move to adjourn debate on this motion, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

We'll continue with our line of questioning.

You have two minutes and 30 seconds, Mr. Strahl.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Rousseau, a lot of the incidents involving Air Canada that we heard about, some of the most high-profile incidents.... The one I'm thinking of happened at the Las Vegas airport, where there was someone, I believe, who had to drag himself through the cabin to get out. Obviously, you're dealing with—I assume—a contractor outside of Canada.

How have you revised your approach to dealing with the foreign private contractors that you have to rely upon? Have you changed your approach, and if so, how?

[Michael Rousseau]

There are a couple of aspects. You're absolutely right. Outside of Canada, everything is third party contractors. We've strengthened the contract with our third party contractors so there are clear standards to perform.

Just to provide some insight, I will say that with regard to that situation in Las Vegas, that contractor—not just for that mistake they made but also for others—was terminated, and we brought in a new contractor. It's really about training and ensuring that we have a strong contract that has penalties and standards of care that are consistent with what we're trying to do in Canada.