Transport Committee on March 31st, 2022

[Steve Pratte]

Very briefly, within the railways, they have their multiple unions that have their agreements with the employers. There is a whole schedule of those. Interested parties such as us or you can see them, so you know when these are coming up.

It's just that, again, with all the legal protection for that collective bargaining arrangement, it is concerning, and that is something that's within our nation's control. That's one of those things about the visibility for external customers around the world. It's one thing when people can appreciate an act of God, a natural disaster, etc. They scratch their heads, though, when it seems like it's reoccurring labour issues breaking down the supply chain and, as you mentioned, consistently.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

You also alluded to events such as the blockade that took place in western Canada, which was organized by indigenous nations. One could think of the possibility of a natural cataclysm. It seems that a lot can happen in the supply chain.

What makes us more aware of this today, when these are all problems, or at least risks, that have always existed?

[Dave Carey]

I believe the risks have always been there. That certainly has been compounded by things like COVID and the other things we've discussed.

I think, too, that as an industry, the concern is that these are issues that we're having with our current capacity. As an industry, the canola industry, we're looking to intensify production, to produce more on the same amount of land using less inputs. The vision for our industry—remember, we're one of Canada's largest agricultural commodities—is to move more product. There is more demand than we can really supply, so the concern is that, if we're having these disruptions with our current levels of production, as we look to intensify and increase our production that will further exacerbate the system.

I think the visibility is higher because of things like COVID, but these concerns have been ongoing, as my colleagues with Supply Chain Canada and the CPMA have said. We're feeling them more acutely now, I think, as Canadians are more focused on supply chains—as are parliamentarians—because we saw in parts of the pandemic that things weren't available. I think it has become an acute thing, but these are long-term conversations that we need to have.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for the representatives of the Canadian Produce Marketing Association, Mr. Milette and Mr. Lemaire.

There has been a lot of talk about difficulties in supplying fruit and vegetables. These are foods that come from far away, from regions where the climate allows for year-round production. However, over the past two years, the Quebec government and the public have begun to wonder whether it would not be in our interest to reorient our production to increase local production. Obviously, we're not talking about replacing everything.

Do you think that could be part of the solution?

[Guy Milette]

Absolutely. In fact, it is already part of the solution. The consumption of local products has always been very important. I believe that we must consume as locally as possible in order to have the best possible costs and be less subject to transportation.

However, there are categories of products for which we can do absolutely nothing. If we look at the supply of North American vegetables, these are mainly vegetables that are transported in winter from the United States, Mexico or the rest of Canada. Fruit production comes mainly from international imports. In season, there is local production here in Canada, otherwise it comes from the United States and abroad. In the fruit and vegetable market, it is mainly fruit that is transported by container.

This production is still relatively limited here, although we have diversified enormously in Quebec. We have a lot of good projects, whether it's vertical farming or growing certain fruits in greenhouses. These are still expensive crops that may not appeal to the average consumer. Buying greenhouse strawberries at $5 or $6 a carton may not be for everyone.

But in the last few years, there have been a lot of initiatives in the vegetable sector and, as far as possible, in the fruit sector as well. You have to understand that we are limited. Bananas, pineapples, citrus and many other fruits will never come from Canada or the northern United States in certain seasons.

That being said, sourcing as close to the consumer as possible has always been a priority, and today this is even more true.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Milette.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for their testimony on this interesting and quite complex topic.

I want to kick off by picking up on what Mr. Buhagiar was saying.

At one point in your testimony, you were playing with a metaphor involving a symphony and you said that when the supply chain is working, it's this complex symphony and all of these parts are working in unison. We're at a point now where those parts need tuning. I was thinking about the aptness of that metaphor but also about the problem being that the concert house is on fire, so we can tune all the parts but we have this larger existential issue of the global climate predicament.

Could you talk about your views on the long-term implications of global climate change, especially what some of the models are predicting for our country and the implications for that finely tuned symphony that you described in your testimony?

[Christian Buhagiar]

Mr. Chair, through you to the member, I can't play any instrument. I grew up a baseball player. I know it was my colleague Mr. Lemaire who actually used the metaphor, so I might turn to him to respond regarding his good analogy, but I can certainly take a follow-up question if you'd like. You don't want a baseball player trying to be a symphony conductor. That's for sure.

[Ron Lemaire]

I'm happy to comment if it pleases the member.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Please go ahead.

[Ron Lemaire]

Climate change is a significant concern for the agri-food sector and our community. When we look at the atmospheric rivers, the heat dome that came first in Vancouver and the disruptions that it created in supply but also in production, we're seeing this more frequently and we're seeing it around the world. As Mr. Milette noted, we rely heavily on strong domestic production but also on a global import strategy to meet the demands of the cultural mosaic that is Canada. How we need to address our climate change strategy goes hand in hand with our supply chain solutions. It does link into our discussions around energy and fuel.

With fuel costs going through the roof, what other options are available to us to fast-track—to Christian's comment—automation? What are we doing within the logistics field on moving towards more electric vehicles? How are we moving into transitioning away from fossil fuels and looking at strategies that are cost-effective?

I think in the end, we have to recognize that all the pieces of the symphony have to be connected. We can't add a new instrument into the symphony without making sure it knows the song, it knows what tune it should be playing, and it knows where it is in the symphony. Whether it's the number one cellist or the number four, it has to understand where it fits to move itself to the front. Therefore, yes, there's a significant opportunity.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Lemaire, and my apologies for having the wrong witness with that great metaphor. I don't play an instrument either, so that might be part of the problem.

To pick up where you left off, it seems to me that some of the problems with the supply chain are well within our control, and we can envision strategies that deal with things like the availability of shipping containers or challenges with labour relations. Those are things we can impact through better policy. This larger instability that's being introduced into the system at an ever-greater rate seems to be a real challenge for this somewhat fragile symphony we've built, this just-in-time model that relies on very dependable, very consistent connections between various modes of transportation.

My question—and any of the witnesses can provide their thoughts on this—is whether that just-in-time model is the best model in light of the great uncertainties that are coming with global climate change.

[Guy Milette]

I can start if you want, just for a few seconds.

The just-in-time delivery model has actually taken a long time to put in place, because with today's perishability of product, people want to have the freshest product and the longest possible shelf life for the product, no matter what it is. My concern is with produce, but the just-in-time model actually gives the end consumer that three, four, five or six extra days to be in total control in order to avoid food waste.

We can no doubt start loading a larger quantity just in case, but the problem is that we're going to go totally against what we're trying to build on food waste, and this is a major component. Maybe there are some non-perishable products that can probably be managed more easily in the chain, but freshness in an agricultural product is a key component. It's going to be very hard to go back to a non-just-in-time situation.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Maybe while you're responding, I'll pick up on something you mentioned. I hope I have the right witness.

You mentioned the idea of a supply chain commissioner. Do I have the right...?

[Ron Lemaire]

That's right. My suggestion around that is actually that it would be a government-appointed position that could have oversight across multiple jurisdictions and departments. That's the key relative to connecting the dots.

I would encourage someone from industry. We work closely with many and all government bureaucrats and elected officials, but you need to live and understand how the industry works and you need a person who has their hands in the mud, so to speak, to get the job done.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I guess the question came—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemaire and Mr. Bachrach. I'm sorry. That is a very interesting question.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair. It's all good. I'll pick up on it next time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Hopefully another one of our colleagues, if not you, Mr. Bachrach, will pick up on that in the next round.

Next we have Mr. Jeneroux.

Mr. Jeneroux, you have five minutes. The floor is yours.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Actually, Chair, it's going to be Marilyn Gladu. Hello there, and good afternoon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Ms. Gladu, it's good to see you virtually. Welcome to the committee today.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I always love it when you guys have a great topic of conversation.

I'm going to start my questions with the chemistry industry, to my friend, Bob Masterson. We've seen a lot of....

He's not on yet? Okay. Do we have the Association of Port Authorities? I'm sorry. I'm coming in late on this one.

Do you want to ask yours, then, Matt? You start.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

If it's okay with you, Mr. Chair, we'll switch back to me taking the questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

That's not a problem at all, Mr. Jeneroux. Go ahead.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thanks.

I appreciate your coming and virtually taking the time at committee today on a Thursday afternoon.

Not only are we facing supply chain issues, but we're also facing a massive housing crisis too. We're seeing the average cost of a Canadian home right now reaching $868,000, making it virtually unaffordable for a lot of young Canadians who are looking to get into the market. The Canadian Home Builders' Association said that sourcing materials has driven up the cost of materials and added tens of thousands of dollars to the cost of building a home.

The Bank of Canada said that the production shortage on various goods, such as appliances, plumbing fixtures, windows, as well as shipping bottlenecks at ports all over the world, continues to cause delays for many of the builders. I know that's not necessarily the area of expertise of the canola growers or the Produce Marketing Association, but I suspect you probably have some experience in seeing what these delays might cause.

I'm going to first go to Christian, if you're okay with that, Christian. Maybe you can just explain some of the issues happening at the ports.

You see on English Bay the big tankers sitting there, and they sit there for months in a lot of ways. Is it getting through the ports? Is it on our side, the Canadian side? Has it gone smoothly up to that point? Is it the trucking side? From your perspective, maybe break it down a little bit for us, if you don't mind.