Transport Committee on Sept. 19th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Péloquin.

Next, we have Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Badawey, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First off, I want to comment on the comment Mr. Lawrence made about us taking it seriously. You can be rest assured that Transport Canada has a culture within the department to take every situation like this seriously.

Phil, you know me better than that. You know me very well. We take it very seriously.

Folks, this is 2024. These things shouldn't happen in 2024. It's simply unacceptable.

I know, Mr. Péloquin, that you had discussions with then Minister Rodriguez. He asked that an independent investigation on the incident be under way, as well as, within 30 days, to come back with an emergency management plan. What's the status of that work?

[Mario Péloquin]

You're absolutely right. It's unacceptable. Although it's an isolated incident, one is too many. We fully agree with that.

I did have a conversation with the then minister on the Tuesday after the long weekend, and shortly after that received a letter indicating what he wanted, actions he wanted Via Rail to perform in an urgent manner. We are to respond within 30 days, as you highlighted.

We've already provided an interim response to that letter. Within two weeks, we prepared an interim response that highlights the actions that we've already taken, and we're working through the independent investigation, under Mr. Lavoie's leadership, to provide a full response within the timeline.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

I apologize. I have five minutes. I'm trying to get to this, and ultimately it meets the expectation of this committee, because the questions I'm asking are for them, so they can get this into the report, and, therefore, we can come up with some solutions so that this doesn't happen again, working with you folks and other partners.

I would request that the investigation report, as well as the emergency management plan, be submitted to committee as part of your testimony, so we can actually put it into the final report.

The second question is with respect to improving the way you communicate with your passengers—this is all about the customer—on trains and providing basic care, etc., with respect to major service disruptions.

I don't have time to dance on this, so getting granular, Mario, what are you doing better now versus what you were doing then?

[Mario Péloquin]

The actions we already put in place will go a long way to making sure that we don't have to deal with consequences later. If we now have a protocol for communications internally so that the executives know right away when there's a situation that is abnormal, that will allow us to not wait for the protocol to go through but to take quicker action to make sure that we look after our passengers in real time.

Also, we're looking at all the other aspects of what we can do faster and better, so that we don't have to deal with a situation in which passengers are on a train for 10 hours.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you. This might seem like somewhat of a digression, but it's not. It is relevant. We are in the process of building an HFR- and HSR-dedicated track, as you are well aware. Of course, having a track that's dedicated to cargo versus people would have helped out, especially with the disruption that you caused not only for people but with respect to the supply chains vis-à-vis, in this case, CN Rail. One reason that we're looking at a supply chain logistics strategy is to integrate the different methods of transportation—being water, rail, road and air—and this is part of the reason.

My next question is, how are you working with CN and CP? This goes to Mr. Bachrach's questions as well, because they were very relevant. How are you working with CN and CP Rail to, one, prevent disruptions in supply chains; two, deal with this situation directly—and I don't have to repeat what that situation is—and, three, look at the ability to work with CN and CP toward having the redundancy available so that the train can be moved more quickly onto a siding, and, therefore, dealing with the folks there as well as opening up the track for supply chains?

[Mario Péloquin]

Of course, when we run on a freight railroad, they're very aware of the situation because they, the railroad, are the host that controls train movement. When we're blocking their track—in that case it was a single track—it can have an impact on the logistics of moving freight traffic around, so we work very closely together.

As Madam Toporowski explained a moment ago, they offered to help with the situation by pushing our train out of the way, but train number 24 was arriving at about the same time at that location, and we chose the option of using our train because they could connect easier. It's a seamless connection and they can provide power to the disabled train, so for us that was a better option, given that it was the same time frame.

However, I can assure you that we work in close collaboration with CN, CP, GO Transit, Metrolinx and so on at all times to make sure that, as much as possible, there's no impediment to either freight or passenger traffic.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

With respect to compensation to the passengers, can you clarify the level of compensation passengers are entitled to when an incident such as this occurs? As well, I expand it to ask, what compensation will actually be added to the cargo that's expected to move on that track but that, because of the situation, sees time elapse while it gets to its final destination? That's compensation for passengers and for those who were held up because of the train taking up the space on the track.

[Mario Péloquin]

We have a compensation protocol. On the day of the event we fully refunded the passengers on train 622. Also, we gave them a full credit for their trip. The passengers on trains 24 and 26 got partial credit, because they were disrupted on their trip.

We haven't had conversations with CN Rail, as of yet, about compensation for potential delays to freight traffic. I'm not aware to what extent freight trains were delayed, so that's to come later if there's—

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

It was all affected, so can I ask for those reports on the investigation results, the updating of the emergency management plan, the communications plan and any compensation that you would otherwise have given to the passengers as well as to CN Rail?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

We'll make sure that the clerk follows up to obtain those documents.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

The interest, Mr. Péloquin, is in having it added to the testimony and, therefore, forming part of the report, so we can actually take next steps to make sure that the outcomes we all expect are undertaken.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

Next we go to you, Mr. Vis. I add 30 seconds onto your time because we added 30 seconds onto Mr. Badawey's time. The floor is yours, sir.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today.

I just have a few questions for the sake of clarity.

At the start of your testimony, Mr. Péloquin, you said that any shortcomings would be identified and quickly addressed. Can you tell us when we'll receive the results of the internal investigation?

Can you also provide an update on the questions asked by Mr. Badawey?

[Mario Péloquin]

Of course, the investigation isn't over yet. The investigation is multi‑faceted, with the aim of determining exactly what happened on August 31. It's quite complicated. We're thoroughly reviewing all these aspects. An independent investigation is also under way.

We have already obtained some results and taken steps to address the situation. However, the investigation to determine the causes of the mechanical incident is still ongoing. We haven't found all the root causes yet, but we'll do so as soon as possible.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Do you have a rough idea?

[Mario Péloquin]

Mr. Lavoie can comment on the independent investigation.

[Denis Lavoie, General Counsel, VIA Rail Canada Inc.]

As Mr. Péloquin said, the independent investigation is well under way. We should be able to publish the results, findings and recommendations this fall.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Okay.

During his appearance before the committee in January 2023, Mr. Landry emphasized the need to acknowledge the stress generated for employees by these delays. He said the following: “Of course, priority was granted to passengers, but we must also understand the impact on our employees and take good care of them.”

In your opinion, did Via Rail employees receive sufficient training and support to properly meet the needs of passengers during the August incident?

[Mario Péloquin]

When we hire employees to work on the trains, they receive training. I would even say that it's fantastic training. Clients who travel by train tell us that Via Rail's service is better than any other service in the service industry. That's a good thing. We also provide ongoing training.

Our employees on board did a tremendous job during this event. We heard this from a number of the passengers on board, even though they weren't happy to have been on the train for such a long time.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I would actually agree. I'm a British Columbian. The very few times I've even been able to take Via Rail in my life—because it's a service that generally doesn't exist in my province—it has been a phenomenal experience.

That leads me to my next question. If you will indulge me for a minute, I would be remiss if I didn't ask this for my constituents. I represent a small town called Lillooet. It's a traditional train hub. My constituents wanted me to ask you directly, could they get passenger rail service again from Vancouver to Lillooet and on to Prince George? I represent many remote indigenous communities that are fully reliant on trains.

What can British Columbians expect from Via Rail to help give them a level of service that exists in other parts of Canada?

[Mario Péloquin]

As president of Via Rail, I would love to do more to serve more Canadians across the country. That's the overall answer. Unfortunately, as I've said in answer to another question earlier, I have limited numbers of rail cars and locomotives. They're all being used right now for the service that we're offering today.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

That's too bad, because many people in British Columbia have more experience taking Amtrak down to Bellingham versus Via Rail to communities in Canada. Thank you for recognizing the lack of service that British Columbians receive, and your understanding that we can do better, perhaps, in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Vis.

Next, we will go online to Mr. Rogers, for five minutes.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, welcome to the folks from Via Rail who are with us today. I know you've characterized this particular incident as being unacceptable. You've apologized profusely to your passengers, of course, and to everybody publicly. I know the former minister wrote a letter, which MP Badawey referred to, asking you to do a certain number of things, such as an independent investigation and so on. All that's ongoing.

One of the things I'm curious about is, for the passengers, the people who were on the train, or on any of your trains for that matter, what's the level of compensation that passengers are entitled to when this type of incident occurs? What are your current compensation policies?