Transport Committee on Sept. 19th, 2024

[Mario Péloquin]

Thank you for that question. I'll hand it over to Madam Toporowski to answer.

[Rita Toporowski]

Thank you, Mr. Rogers.

Our compensation policies are based on the degree of the delay. Typically, it's either 50% or 100% travel credits for the travel they were delayed on. In this particular case, with train 622, given the extensive delay and conditions and the fact they were on that train for so long and there was a level of anxiety, obviously, from our customer side of things, we offered a 100% refund, recognizing the fact that it was unacceptable from a service-level perspective and from a well-being perspective.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Was there any special consideration for people who are physically challenged and trying to access the trains and so on? Was there any particular kind of compensation for people who might be disabled or need more assistance?

[Rita Toporowski]

Any kind of delay for our passengers is unacceptable, and once again I apologize to all the passengers who were on that train, but regardless of what type of passenger they are and who they are, we offer the same level of compensation. If there's additional support they need on those trains, that's what our onboard staff is trained for as well, to offer additional assistance as required.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Following up from that, I'd ask about your complaint mechanism for customers who received what they consider to be bad service. Obviously, in this case, it was an isolated incident, but there's terrible service based on the reports we've heard. How are these complaints from this particular group of passengers being responded to in general by Via Rail?

[Mario Péloquin]

I'll start by saying that we handle every single complaint we receive personally. We don't send mass letters or anything like that. An interesting fact for that train—and Madam Toporowski will correct me if I'm wrong—is that we've received a number of complaints, of course, for that train on that day. We've also received a number of complaints from people who were not on the train, which is interesting. They complained about the service on board the train, but they were not there.

Madam Toporowski can speak to some of the particular complaints that we received and how we handled them.

[Rita Toporowski]

We take all our passenger complaints very seriously, and we do have a mechanism when they come in via email or voice mail or through our call centres. Sometimes they're mailed directly to Mr. Péloquin, me or other executives. They're responded to specifically related to the issue they're addressing.

With respect to what happened on August 31, there were a number of complaints that came in. Notwithstanding the ones that Mr. Péloquin mentioned, we've gotten about 43 complaints from passengers on train 622. They are being responded to.

As part of our outreach to find out what happened on those trains, we've interviewed 30 passengers as well, at random amongst different cars, to find out the level of service, how we performed in terms of our protocols, which ones were adhered to and where they found failings. We're hoping that, with the complaints that were proactively sent in to us as well as those that we're going to seek, we'll get better information in terms of what they would look for in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Toporowski.

Thank you very much, Mr. Rogers.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for three minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Péloquin, I want to come back to the issue of delays. You said that the recent situation was an isolated incident. I tend to agree with you. It was like a Guinness record for delays. It was an isolated incident, even though the 2022 incident also comes to mind. I don't know whether there have been other equally extreme delays in the meantime. Aside from the extreme and unpredictable situations that may occur from time to time, people generally agree that Via Rail has a reputation for being late. For the average person, Via Rail is synonymous with delays.

I checked your latest annual reports. In 2011, 84% of trains were on time. In 2017, it was 73%. In 2023, it was 59%. That's quite a significant decline. We can see that the situation has only gotten worse over time.

How do you plan to address this?

I understand that Via Rail has a growth plan and must deal with a greater number of passengers. People like to take the train. Personally, I do. However, when we see that the train is always late, we end up losing faith. Sometimes, when we want to be sure to arrive on time, we decide not to take the train. We know that it isn't usually on time.

[Mario Péloquin]

Can you clarify your question?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

How will you address the issue of constant and worsening delays?

[Mario Péloquin]

As you know—we talked about this at our last appearance—we control when the train leaves the initial station. Afterwards, since our trains use infrastructure that doesn't belong to Via Rail, we have no control over the interaction with other trains and all the other events. As a result, we incur delays beyond our control.

We talk a great deal with the host railways, for both freight and commuter trains, to optimize the situation. The fact remains that we must deal with the infrastructure that our trains use.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

It's amazing to see how the percentage of late trains has increased since 2011. That year, trains were on time 84% of the time, which means that they were late 16% of the time. By 2023, the proportion of trains running on time had fallen to 59%, which means that the trains were late 41% of the time. The rate for delays rose from 16% to 41%. That's a staggering percentage.

I imagine that tough discussions are taking place. There must be ways to solve this problem. It really doesn't make sense for trains to run late 41% of the time.

[Mario Péloquin]

Canada's train operating system differs significantly from the system in Switzerland, for example, where trains are probably on time 98% or 99% of the time. We operate a complex system where freight trains and passenger trains use the same tracks. This means that the interactions are more complex than the ones seen in Europe.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Péloquin and Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours for three minutes, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I liked my colleague Mr. Vis's earlier line of questioning, and I hope he and I can work together to ensure that Via Rail has adequate resources to expand public passenger rail throughout the country, including on the routes that it hasn't had the resources to operate over the years. Certainly that would help northwest B.C., where we've seen service reductions over the decades.

My question is about the new Venture fleet. You know, we've had this situation, obviously, involving the new trains. On Sunday, I took the train to Montreal, and we were stuck in the station for an hour while they figured out some kind of mechanical issue. With a new fleet, obviously, there are going to be adjustments, and there's a period of breaking in the new equipment, but I'm wondering, Mr. Péloquin, based on your 40 years of working in the rail sector, if you could characterize how the transition to the new fleet is going. Are the Siemens train sets working out better, worse or as expected?

[Mario Péloquin]

Right now we're about halfway through the fleet reception for Via Rail, and it's going very well. Our relationship with the supplier of the trains is working very well. It's a complex process to receive a train, test it, commission it and put it into service, and I can say that the collaboration is great.

Having seen trains and light rail subways in my days in New York, I would say that it's on par with what we can expect with the delivery of new rolling stock.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, if I could, I'd like to move a motion. I think it would be really helpful to the committee to hear from the staff on board the train as one of the groups that were obviously affected. It was challenging for the passengers. I'm sure it was also extremely challenging for the staff, and as we're doing kind of a comprehensive survey of this incident, I would like to move a motion that the committee invite representatives from Unifor to appear as part of its study on the August 31 incident involving train 622.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Is there any discussion on that? Is that something we would add on to a meeting, or were you thinking about using the time, perhaps...? We have two passengers appearing. Were you proposing that they would appear for the first hour and the second hour could be with Unifor, or are you proposing that we add another meeting on, Mr. Bachrach?

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I think that would be adequate for sure. We have an existing meeting with the passengers appearing, and if they appear for an hour as a panel and we do a second panel with the employees, I think that would be adequate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Okay, we've all heard the terms of the motion. Do we have unanimous consent?

(Motion agreed to)

Okay. It is adopted.

Thanks very much, Mr. Bachrach.

We still have two people left here on our list.

We'll start off with you, Mr. Lawrence. You have five minutes, please.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Mr. Péloquin, I understand that there are lots, thousands, of trains that go across your rails. However, I am struggling a little with your use of the word “isolated”. I'm just going to rattle off some of the report. I'm sure there's much more than this, but these are just some that my staff have been able to pull up.

In 2019, a Via train hit debris and was delayed for four hours. In 2020, a B.C. pipeline protest caused delays for five days in a row. In September 2022, a train was delayed for five hours between Toronto and Windsor for mechanical issues. On December 23, 2022, trains were cancelled and delayed for up to 18 hours. On October 5, 2023, a train between Montreal and Ottawa was stuck for six hours due to mechanical issues. On May 18, trains were delayed for hours due to a suspicious package. Then, on September 1.... That's what brings us here today.

Trains are going to break down. It's a machine; it's going to break down. Weather is going to happen. My challenge here is that we have had numerous incidents, and we're still leaving people stranded for 10 hours with very limited food and water.

Can you still say with a straight face that this is isolated, and that it's one time?

[Mario Péloquin]

I can assure you that it is an isolated incident. We have 20,000 departures every single year, and 80% of those train trips are either on time or within 30 minutes of arrival on time, which is really a good record. Of course, there are events like you just named, a long list, that are outside of our control. If a suspicious package is left somewhere, we don't want to take any chances with the safety of our employees, our equipment and the passengers, especially.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

My concern, once again, is not that these happen but that there wasn't a plan. Particularly, you're talking about the willingness to unload passengers, which is just coming out now. That didn't come out of the Cobourg plan, and it didn't come out of the other half a dozen things.

Is it your evidence today that the passengers should have been evacuated?

[Mario Péloquin]

Given what we discussed a little earlier, we put a protocol in place very quickly to ensure that we start evacuation procedures when we think there is a situation that's going to put the passengers on the train for too long a period of time. It varies depending on the circumstances. Absolutely, if we had known that it would be that long, we should have evacuated the passengers off that train much earlier.