Evidence of meeting #142 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contamination.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence
I have hands up by Mr. Barsalou-Duval and Mr. Bachrach.
I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
In response to Mr. Badawey's proposal, I tend to agree that we should also invite other carriers that are adopting the same practice. However, how many carriers would that be? Do we want to invite 12, 13, 20 airlines?
Maybe we should limit it to the major airlines, the big ones. For example, we could hear from representatives of the National Airlines Council of Canada, WestJet, Air Transat and Porter.
I think we should invite a limited number of companies. That's all I wanted to add.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval. That's a good point. In fact, I think everyone agrees that we need to limit the number of companies to be invited.
I'll turn it over to Mr. Bachrach first, and then I'll turn it back to you.
Mr. Bachrach, you have the floor.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
We support this motion. I think that everyone sees these fees as junk fees that are going to be used to jack up the cost of flying. We're seeing a similar push-back in the United States, where airlines are trying to pull the same game.
My original question was about ensuring that this is a special meeting outside of our schedule. We do have a new study starting next week, I believe. My preference would be to not take up one of those meetings, because that would leave us with a single meeting prior to the holiday recess.
I think everyone's willing to work extra hard in the lead-up to Christmas, so if we can get an extra meeting outside the schedule for this matter, that would be appreciated.
The second point was around naming the specific airlines that we want to show up. My understanding is that not every airline has these pricing practices, so we should probably focus on the ones that do, although some other airlines that don't price things that way may want to add their thoughts as well about why they're not willing to participate in this kind of what I see as pretty unscrupulous behaviour.
I'll leave it at that, and hopefully we can get the answers that Canadians deserve.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.
One thing I want to point out is that we're giving, I believe, eight days' notice to the companies to send representatives. We're asking specifically—correct me if I'm wrong—for CEOs in this motion.
Are we limiting it to CEOs? If the CEOs can't make it, the companies could respond by saying, “The CEO is not available.” Should we say, “the CEOs or designated representative”? They would probably send a vice-president. However, if we specifically ask for the CEOs....
Go ahead, Mr. Lawrence.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
On a number of points by Monsieur Barsalou-Duval, we agree it should be the three top airlines, in terms of a limited number.
Quite frankly, this is something Canadians take very seriously. There has been a tremendous amount of outrage. We are the people's House. If the people want the CEOs of the airlines to be here within eight days, they should be here. If they can't make the time within eight days, it's a violation of not my privilege but the Canadian people's privilege.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence.
Just to be clear, colleagues, we're looking at Air Canada, WestJet and....
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
It's Porter. Okay. Thank you.
I'm going to turn the floor over to you, Mr. Badawey.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
I would even go one step further.
I agree with Mr. Lawrence. There is no question that this is very troubling. Quite frankly, it was troubling when WestJet started doing it. Now we have Air Canada following suit. We want to make it very clear to Porter.... I'd even go as far as inviting Air Transat to hear what those concerns are.
Domestically, this is beyond concern. Let's have WestJet, Porter, Air Transat and, of course, Air Canada here to speak about this. I'm not here to throw snowballs at anybody; I'm just here to express the concerns of the people we represent and ensure they hear them loud and clear. Let them speak about the decision they're making. Of course, with good dialogue, we make sure that concerns residents are expressing to us—their representatives—are heard loud and clear by all the major carriers.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Badawey.
I'll turn it over for a final note from Mr. Bachrach.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I know we have to get back to this important matter at hand.
I'm just wondering. We have a two-hour meeting, so we have room for two panels. Do we have room to include a passenger advocate? This is a consumer rights issue. I think just hearing from the airlines and the minister means we're not going to hear from anyone who represents the passengers who have to pay these junk fees.
My preference would be, if at all possible, to also invite Gábor Lukács from Air Passenger Rights. I know he's no stranger to the committee, and he always brings a detailed and articulate view to these issues. I also know he's already spoken out about this. My preference would be to add him to the list.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
My thought is that we go ahead with a two-hour meeting. In the first hour, we have the passenger advocate, Air Canada and the minister. Then, in the second hour, we have WestJet, Air Transat and Porter, if that is agreeable to everyone.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Is there any particular reason Air Canada is singled out for the first hour?
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
As Vance said, there are others that are including these junk fees, as they're known, such as WestJet. However, Air Canada is the one that has just recently gone forward. They are the headline right now.
I would, quite frankly, like to ask questions of the air passenger advocate with Air Canada there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Okay. It wouldn't be the holidays without Gábor Lukács joining us at committee.
Colleagues, we've all heard the terms.
Are there any other questions or comments?
Seeing none, do I have unanimous consent to adopt the motion and move forward with the clerk in trying to respond to the demands of the committee?
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Thank you very much, colleagues.
Thank you, Mr. Lawrence.
Mr. Lawrence, I will turn the floor back over to you for your line of questioning in the second round of witnesses we have.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you very much.
Ms. Hébert, I think you were at the agriculture committee this morning as well.
No. I'm so sorry. That was someone else from the Department of Transport.
I want to spend my time, though, with you, Mr. Cain, as director of contaminated sites.
One thing that concerns me in this case is that there has been a lack of notification. In the documentation provided by Transport Canada, they included some documentation on contamination, but it was...I don't want to say it was hidden, but a due diligence package was not easily seen.
Obviously, I'm concerned about what happened at the Big Dock. The thing that really concerns me, though, is how many other sites there might be where people aren't receiving proper notification.
When the government is aware of a contaminated site, what is the process for informing and notifying first nations, municipalities and other local residents?
Seth Cain Director, Contaminated Sites Division, Department of the Environment
The federal contaminated sites program, which is a horizontal program that I oversee as a director at Environment Canada, working with colleagues, lays out the expectations that we have of custodians in terms of involving the public, indigenous groups and others. It's guidance; it's not a formal regulatory or other requirement. It provides guidance as a program. The program does recommend that potentially impacted members of the public, indigenous groups and other stakeholders be identified early in the process and that if there is potential for impacts, to then communicate with those groups.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you, Mr. Cain.
How many contaminated sites are there in Canada?
Director, Contaminated Sites Division, Department of the Environment
We have a federal registry, which includes all of the potential and actual contaminated sites under the federal government's responsibility. That registry lists over 24,000 federal contaminated sites. A great portion of those are identified as suspected.
Part of the process for contaminated sites is for custodians—which is to say federal departments, agencies, Crown corporations—
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
I'm sorry, Mr. Cain. My time is short. I don't mean to be rude.
For how many of those 24,000 suspected contaminated sites have stakeholders—such as landowners, indigenous groups and municipalities—been notified?
Director, Contaminated Sites Division, Department of the Environment
I don't have that level of information.
In terms of the way the responsibilities go, each of the federal departments that owns the sites—
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Is that information that your department has, but you just don't have it here with you?
Director, Contaminated Sites Division, Department of the Environment
It's information that we don't gather. We don't have that information.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Then we have a department in the federal government that identifies that there are 24,000 contaminated sites, but we don't have any documentation of whether anyone's received notification that they're potentially swimming in, fishing in and drinking water out of contaminated sites.